Seems the Llama may in some form make a return.
Course, it won't be a Llama, more a 4WD Transit van I guess.
Doesn't look like it'll be made at Solihull either.
Seems hardly worth putting a Green Oval on it :-(
But I'm sure they will
Like a GTI badge on a new Golf, or a mini badge on that German junk, it will dilute the name
:O(
Tim
All those ovals and so few colours!
Is this the Defender replacement? Or the 101 replacement? Don't they know my drive is nearly full... I'll have to pave the front garden next.
So many Landrovers... so little time!
;-)
Lee D
Its a Land Rover, off road it man!
Wot Stone Garden Wall?
Tim
Gorra be s**te as Land Rover no longer exists as a distinctive marque Ford can go FTS
What rubbish! Land Rover are making some of the most recognisable and distinctive vehicles on the road today. After many years of rolling out poor quality vehicles (too many long running design faults to list, but R380 gearboxes, Defender rear doors, Range Rover rotting tailgates spring to mind) the quality is getting better. The Range Rover is a very innovative vehicle, as is the about-to-arrive Discovery.
They don't make 'em like the Series any more, but frankly it's just about impossible to do that under the current regulations. Remember that if the Defender was a new design it would fail crash tests, and has been impossible to export to the States for quite some time.
Ford have done a reasonable job of managing their Premier Auto Group - Aston Martin have the best models in years, Jaguar are producing good quality and my Volvo is a very well designed bit of kit.
Contrast that with GM, who forced Saab to sell Vectras and are now making them sell a very roughly dressed up Subaru. BMW hadn't a clue what to do with Rover / Land Rover and kept the bits they wanted (i.e. the components of the X5 and the Mini) and ditched the rest to the highest bidder.
On or around Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:32:49 +0100, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:
I'm inclined to agree. Whether the regulations etc. are a good thing, is another question.
and Ford have a lot of expertise in the small-commercial market, both in the USA and here, which could well make for a better defender-replacement than BMW would have come up with in a thousand years... as for LR, if it hadn't been bought out and had rather a lot of cash injection among other perhaps less palatable measures, it'd probably have folded by now, as it'd not have kept up with the necessary innovation. Although, AFAIK, the TD5, which seems reasonably successful, is I believe a LR design pre-BMW.
At least if the original posting is correct then we will get to have the Llama built - which is more than the LR of old could do! Why put a petrol engined vehicle in for military appraisal when one of the class criteria insisted it should be diesel?? Would Ford have been so stuck for an engine that worked that they would have had to have done that! British military planners worked miracles in the Seconf World War, but it was made easier for them knowing there was an American wallet begind them!
David LLAMA 4x4 ( nothing to do with the prototypr!!! )
It's about time they gave the Presentation Suite at Lode Lane a makeover, though. My suggestion last year that they get one of dem TV 'Changing Rooms" type progs in to do something interesting was met with a, well, less than enthusiastic response ;-)
Aston Martin and Jaguar have been totally reinvented and (in general) now benefit from a happy and motivated workforce. This will flow through to Land Rover (the process has started), however there is a far different culture within Lode Lane which really has to change for this to be a success.
Once this is sorted all they need to do is totally change their entire dealer franchise agreement to introduce some quality and customer care standards - but of course, that'll never happen...
It's a 'light goods', and sadly doesn't look anything like the Llama (well, the artist impression doesn't, anyway). Neither does it look like a Defender, actually, it looks more like a (cough) Merc IMO.
On or around Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:56:08 +0100, Mother enlightened us thusly:
anyone got urls for pictures or anything?
Erm, no. I was under the impression that an announcement was to be made. I now believe this may have been a premature assessment of the situation as I saw it... erm...
Really? Santana seem to be doing a good job with thier PS-10, which owes more to the Series than the Defender, whilst being a darn sight better and cheaper than the Defender.
Alex
On or around Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:01:38 GMT, Alex enlightened us thusly:
are they actually selling that in the states, though?
in fact, it's more like a defender with leaf springs, and the leaf springs, being parabollocks, are nothing like the old LR kind.
but yes, the whole vehicle does look very impressive. I reckon they need to offer the more-powerful version of the Iveco 2.8 though, specially with the TD5 to compete with. It should be pretty easy to do. The body, on the whole, is better than the defender, and has a couple of serious improvements: remove the seatbox, and wider rear load floor with similarly wider rear door. If I were in the market for a new 110 CSW, it'd probably be a santana.
Twas Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:23:50 +0100 when Austin Shackles put finger to keyboard producing:
Ditto..
Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)
I must admit I'm with you on that. It does have several benifits over the defender, the body design is certainly much more thoughtfull than Landrover's adherance to the old series shell. I often think that Landrover stopped development on the vehicle when they designed the
90/110, they simply shoved Series bodywork onto a modified RangeRover chassis, and it's stayed there ever since. Whereas Santana decided to look at things to see where they could be improved above the Series. I often wonder if the Leyland years resulted in the Defender becoming stagnated, where Santana were free to muck about and improve the design somewhat. It's the same with the springs. Santana couldn't use coil springs (otherwise LR would be jumping up and down, and slapping infringements on them) so they looked at better leaf springs. The gearbox is still descended from the Series, with selectable 4WD, and why not? It's an off-road vehicle, why do you need permanat 4WD anyway? Perhaps the engine could do with pepping up, but I don't see that it would be underpowered.On the whole, it seems to be a better thought out vehicle to the Defender, and has the added advantage of being cheaper. I just wish they did a RHD SWB version.
Alex
On or around Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:21:28 GMT, Alex enlightened us thusly:
actually, as I understand it, when Lode Lane went to coils, it wasn't gonna be worth converting the santana factory, due to smaller numbers. Instead of the 90/110 they went to what you might call a Series IIIA, which had the parabolic springs, and some other improvements.
selectable 4WD can be handy, and might increase economy slightly, provided you have FWH as well. the point about the engine is that the 146ps one is available "off-the-shelf", from Iveco - I don't see why they shouldn't offer it as an option. The 125ps one gives similar performance to a TDi, AIUI, but the more powerful one would be more fun :-)
It might be down to the driveline? Depends how heavliy it is based on the Series.
Alex
On or around Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:30:34 GMT, Alex enlightened us thusly:
they use the LT85 5-speeder, ISTR, which should handle it.
I've made vailed threats when relandscaping the front it will feature a pile of Boulders which will make an ideal parking plot.
I'm also looking for two badges one for the front door reading "Reception" and one for the garage reading "Service" with perhaps a corner labled "rechassing parking only"
I've clocked a nice Neon type effect Landrover service sign on ebay of which there are a great many currently being sold. Not convinced yet the seller is pucker and less inclined to make the purchase being as the seller is abroad... but it looks a nifty sign to hang on the garage wall.
80)Lee D
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