LPG on diesel engines

Yes.... and yes. It's a 'supplementary' fuel when used in a diesel. Google for LPG fumigation.

No - you are not right in thinking LPG can be used in diesel engines - not in place of diesel anyway.

You could use a tiny bit in addition, at great expense - how many million miles are you doing in your LandRover and will a penny or two per litre make all the difference ?

If you have an old mechanical injection diesel you could try cutting your diesel with old chip shop oil - of course it takes a lot of cleaning up (removing the batter and chips etc), and you still 'have to' own up and pay some tax, but I am told it can be done. Just beware that chip shop oil doesn't have pump lubricity additives - so too much and you can shag your injection pump - which will cost a fortune to replace- and don't do it on a modern diesel with electronic injectors

- if it goes wrong it will cost an arm and a leg.

I would recommend getting a V8 110 Defender - and then suddenly your diesel will seem so economical you will not have to worry anymore.

Steve

SG: They've been using LPG in big diesel truck engines for decades to=20 boost horse power. Strictly speaking it does replace some of the diesel=20 in the mix (it's often injected in liquid form just like diesel) but=20 you're right you can't run a diesel engine on LPG alone.

SG: There are lots of people (myself included) running diesel cars on a=20 mixture of pump diesel and veg oil - I buy mine straight from the=20 supermarket and save =A320 each time I fill the tank with a 50/50 mix.=20 Provided you keep the mixture at a reasonable level (min 25% diesel IMO) =

the damage to pumps, etc., is likely to be very slight. As for declaring =

it's use and paying tax; well the law changed in June/July of this year=20 so as long as you don't use more than 2500 litres per year there's no=20 need to declare it. I have personally confirmed this with HMC&R.

SG: Couldn't agree more :-))

--=20 Regards

Steve G

What veg oil do you use, Steve? Now that the law has changed and removed the hassle factor, I might be interested in this.

On or around Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:00:40 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:

hmmm. might need to look into bulk veg oil supplies... I currently spend over 3 grand a year on diesel and that's before the chancellor puts it up again.

ICBA with buying it in the supermarket 3l at a time though - there must, however, be somewhere to order it in bulk, say in 25l drums.

Now the question is, if buying new oil, which (apart from the cheapest) is the best one to buy? Do you lose power, do you lose more with some oil than others?

I'd tend to the view that the thinner the oil the better, esepcially for winter use.

Do you get any hassles like more prone to block filters, or anything like that? Any silly pitfalls that are easy to avoid if you know about them in advance?

I'd be running it in a turbo transit 2.5, non-intercooled. It's a mechanical injection pump but electronically controlled.

On or around Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:00:40 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:

some googling seems to indicate that lucas pumps don't work well with SVO.

now, where was that site about how to process oil into proper biodiesel...

Cash and carry places or "club" wholesalers such as CostCo and Makro. La= st time I looked in CostCo their 20l drums of SVO came in at 54p/l.

With the change in the law and also spending >=A33,000/year on fuel I'm =

sorely tempted but not sure how a TD5 will react, or more to the point t= he fuel system compenents of a TD5 will react. Anyone out there cut diesel =

with SVO in a TD5?

Now that is a subject for a university thesis if ever there was one.

Austin, I get mine in 20l tubs from Bookers Cash and Carry.

-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."

To reply direct rot13 me

bURRt the 101 Camper

200TDi Disco with no floor - its being fixed at last! 200 TDi Disco, "the offroader" 1976 S3 Lightweight

does anyone actually have a reference that I can lookup online to this rule change

also is the 2500 litters total fuel used or veg oil used

Andrew Carr

I wish the HMR&C website had a decent glossary or something to translate ordinary, plain, english into "Revenue Speak", would half make searching for stuff so much easier. After a fair bit of digging:

The important bit is that at the end of Brief 43/07 where there is a note that says Brief 43/07 contents overrule that of Public Notice 179E where there is a conflict.

"Litters"? Your motor running like a dog or summat? B-)

AIUI the veg oil part, ie the bit you haven't paid duty on. Fuel bought at the pump is "duty paid" and if there is one thing the Revenue don't like it is double taxation.

Thanks for putting me right Steve - I didn't realise the law had changed in our favour.

Regards the lubrication of the pump, before low sulphur diesel the sulphur actually was a very effective lubricant - fuel companies had to develop lubricity additives for low sulphur diesel - I think it was mainly to protect the pumps - which run with very fine tolerances. I don't think veg oils score well as lubricants

Veggy oils are rather different from mineral oils as regards wetting surfaces and horribly claggy deposits. Bio-diesel so far only has a small fraction of vegetable oils - and I think the oil companies and the car manufacturers are still uncertain whether bio additives can upset the latest electronic injectors and pumps. You don't say if your car is a newer common-rail type diesel.

One side effect I am told is that your mates keep looking for the chip shop - they can smell it and it makes them hungry ! Maybe you can add some garlic and get more exotic odours from the exhaust (I think garlic contains sulphur!) - now there is an interesting line of research.

Steve

The Bosch VE (as used on transits) pump is very prone to wear on the camplate, internal in the pump. Make sure you have enough lubricity in whatever fuel you use.

On or around Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:59:08 +0100, "SimonJ" enlightened us thusly:

Actually, I need to check on the pump. The fuel system is Lucas EPIC, but I'm only assuming that means a Lucas pump. The non-turbo pumps are indeed bosch, AFAIK.

The various wibblings I've found so far indicate that Lucas/CAV pumps are esepcially at risk form wear if run on SVO, however, I'd tend to assume that a mixture fo SVO and diesel would be OK as it still has the lubricant stuff in it.

Another point though is that this engine is pretty good and runs nice and clean, and I don't really want to bugger it up.

Found the instructions about transesterification, but with the need to buy methanol and lye and so forth, I doubt it works out that much cheaper. Recipe seems to include about 20% methanol; no idea how much methanol is going to cost in industrial quantities, but the costs will need to be added to the cost of the veg oil in the first place. I daresay it makes sense if you use enough.

I've played around doing that - IMO it's not worth the hassle or expense.

You're right, it is a Lucas pump on the turbo's, I stand corrected. I know bugger all about them, only ever played with the Bosch.

On or around Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:47:05 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:

that's rather what I concluded - If I wanted 20000 litres per annum, it might be worth the hassle.

I asked about getting reclaimed veg oil delivered in 1,000 litre quantities, it would have cost significantly more than supermarket fresh oil. That was a few years ago though, and of course the convenience of not having to work with 3 litre bottles might have been worth it. ISTR that reclaimed oil doesn't work too well in a car either due to some chemical change or another.

On or around Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:23:14 +0100, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:

in terms of waste oil, you've got to look at filtering as well as treatment. In terms of using new SVO in a mixture with diesel, if it's circa 50ppl then it could save a fair bit if used say 50:50, but then again, if using it

50:50 then causes you to need an injection pump rebuild in a year, it'd not be a saving.

No this stuff was already filtered and intended to be used straight away in the cooking process again.