More bad news for older cars

The PT system in London - and that's what we're discussing since no other UK city has a congestion charge - is brilliant.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Dave Plowman (News), managed to produce the following words of wisdom

I agree entirely, but the PT system in London was brilliant /before/ the congestion charge and knowing this gubbermint not very much at all of the £8 a day will have gone into improving it.

However, because Ken and his cronies have managed to get the CC to work in London, there are now crackpot schemes to follow his example in places where it just won't work. Manchester for example.

Hmm, who is it who keeps on reading too much in to too little and too little into too much?

I think you should try not to obsess about the congestion charge all the time, there's a whole world out there Dave, go for it! Try straying outside the M25, lots of people have done so and lived.

It's barely acceptable, and it had better be because despite the beloved congestion charge, the roads are s**te. Last time I spent a week working in London I was amazed that people would stand the underground's overcrowding. It's not "brilliant", it's noisy, overcrowded, hot, smelly and unreliable. You're used to it because your overcrowded roads are worse so your standards of acceptability are lowered.

I looked at using busses instead but from Victoria to Threadneedle street the journey time went up from a claimed 25 minutes to a claimed hour, and given that the claimed 25 minutes on the tube varied from 45 minutes to an hour, I don't think the day was long enough to try the busses.

On or around Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:30:37 +0000, John Williamson enlightened us thusly:

's obvious, you need a nice big petrol V8 in the coach, then you can set it up to run on LPG and Red Ken will pay you to bring it into London...

On or around Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:18:40 +0000 (GMT), Paul Vigay enlightened us thusly:

My minibus is listed as "not subject to" until 04/10/2010 and then "non-compliant"

wonder what happens if you re-engine with a compliant engine?

You can get bits of paper that say so, just like I could with my Defender, clap some kind of cyclone filter on the exhaust for example.

That sounds like a plan :-)

D'you know if I can still get a Merlin?

Sounds like London in general and I have a crap sense of smell...

Your looking at it with your non-Londonite hat on and looking at timetables, you don't do that with the underground it's a turn up and go service. Not normally more than a few minutes wait in the central area, yes you do need "experience" to know how long it'll take but any one with half a brain soon sorts that out. It's also adviseable to avoid travelling with all the wage slaves as well. The zone ticketing system is easy to understand and predictable, the fares reasonable. I think they know have under/over/bus through ticketing and of course the Oyster card.

Compare that to most other cities with a bus every 15 mins if you are lucky that will just take you into the city, you 'll need another one to get from one area of the city to another. Simple to understand and reasonable fares? Through ticketing? You're having a laugh aren't you...

Outside of the city boundaries you may as well forget PT as an option.

You get the emission tests done (at your expense) & send the form off, with the processing fee, probably including postage for the stuff they don't keep to be returned to you.

It's true the CC admin costs are high. The 'gubbermint' have no access to those funds. Almost all the buses, trains and tubes are recent and in good condition - a very different matter from a few years ago when they were appalling.

Then the voters in that city can stop it happening - or reverse it at the next election. As happened in Edinburgh.

That's true. Years ago the people of London again voted out a council who wanted to drive motorways through their city. You can see small parts of the proposed box system scattered around where they were built on derelict land so didn't meet planning objections. The M25 is the only completed part of that plan.

Every large city has crowded roads and PT at rush hour. It's part and parcel of a vibrant economy. Which you apparently want to take advantage of by working there when it suits you - but want it altered to suit you and sod the residents. Which is a very common and selfish view of many who want to do the same.

If you want to avoid congested PT avoid the rush hour.

No, I wasn't looking at timetables, just journey times to gauge roughly when I had to leave the hotel then multiply by 2 as public transport is almost always twice as slow as it claims, apart from in London where it's even slower.

Half an hour sometimes on the circle line :-(

I'd never go there if I wasn't going for money..

Perhaps London's public transport might be excellent compared to other cities but as a form of transport it's still woeful. It took me between 45 minutes to an hour to travel 4 miles. If I didn't have so much gear to carry and wasn't too chicken to brave the "solved" traffic problems then I'd ride a bike and get there in 20 minutes.

I've never seen one anywhere near as bad as London. The underground on the mornings I travelled was inhumane, swelteringly hot on a very cold day, packed in like sardines with people pressing in on me on all sides, having to queue to get onto the platform and then having to wait for three trains to go through before I got to the edge of the packed platform.

Once on the train rocks like a fairground ride, stinks, rattles and eventually gets me to my station, where I do my best to get out before it pulls away again, quite hard when you're packed in like a tuna chunk.

"Brilliant".

Oh do I? What do I want altered then that wouldn't benefit the residents? Not making stuff up and attributing it to me again are you?

I wouldn't describe any public transport I've seen in this country as "brilliant" as you claim, in London it's barely acceptable as I stated, and as I said if the congestion on the roads wasn't so "solved" then no-one would use it. It's dreadful as a form of transport, but quite good time-wise by public transport standards in the UK but dreadful in terms of overcrowding. I've not tried public transport much overseas.

Tell that to the customers. I can put up with London's PT only because I think of the loot I'll be making all day, just have to grit my teeth and think "Money money money" and then leave as soon as possible.

I have travelled outside of rush hour of course, it still rattles, stinks and takes ages, it's just not so crowded.

Which other city's underground are you familiar with?

You are against any form of pollution control as created by road transport. If I'm wrong in this please say those you are in favour of.

That doesn't surprise me.

Those that *are* put off by the congestion will find a way of avoiding it. Like travelling before it starts. Or using an alternative route. In most cases there are alternatives to the underground. It's your choice. Of course the congestion would be reduced if fewer choose to live outside London and travel in for work. And that fact applies nationwide to all cities. By saying they don't like the congestion or pollution etc of living in a city and moving out they just add to it. Unless they find work locally. So I really can't see why you find it strange that those who remain choose to have something done about the pollution and congestion.

As I said - me, me, me.

You choose to drive a Land Rover and complain about slow and rattles? ;-)

That's lucky, my 110 will still be OK to go to brixton :-(, horrible place, horrible journey but at least I have a parking place when I get there.

AJH

None, you need a comparison to know when something is bad?

You really are an idiot. In this thread, even in replies to you, I've described what I don't like about the LEZ, and have defended the idea.

Killfile time. Bye.

Or a motorbike with panniers and topcase, and get there in 10.

Serious point - the Govt are pushing PT and cycling as the solution to all our woes, and yet motorcycles and scooters are never mentioned. A small scoot will do any urban journey as quick as a very fit cyclist (or quicker), return around 120mpg and cost pocket money to run. You can get probably 8 bikes in the space of one car, so congestion disappears, and the speed of the flow would mean that all the pollution of a million idling vehicles is gone. Modern kit means you will stay dry in the worst of weather. What's not to like?

White van man pulling from a side road into a slow stream of traffic and smashing your leg?

AJH