(More) Ongoing RR woes

PS the only good thing is finding that Smiles will replace the cracked windscreen in the Astra for £75 +VAT compared with £335 +VAT from Autoglass - Smiles buy their screens from the same supplier as Autoglass

- go figure.

Richard

Isn't this the one with the iffy fuel pump pressure problem? I've only ever needed to recover an 88 3.9 that had this and I never did find out the fix.

AJH

I know not!

My 1989 RRC 3.5 EFi died once due to an iffy fuel pump. Diagnosed by whacking the underside of the fuel tank, which enabled the pump to restart. I did thump the 3.9 last night but it didn't restart instantly - which the 3.5 did - so I don't know if it is the fuel pump.

I'm getting really fed up with RRs.

Any view on the Subaru Forester?

There may be two RRCs up for grabs here in the not too distant future.

Richard

My mate's had one for years, he's hated LRs since he bought a V8 109 in 1980, it's not a cheap motor to run. My 1800 turbo was also expensive and a blown head gasket proved terminal.

AJH

Thanks AJH

I assume you mean expensive in terms servicing?

Difficult one to quantify when compared with the Forth Rail Bridge style of maintenance which seems to apply to RR. Having said that, I'm not really comparing like-with-like as both my RR are over 17 years old and one cannot expect anything that old, and built in the late 80's, to be running without needing constant fettling - or can one?

I'd love to keep the RR, but the attraction of a motor which does exactly what it says on the tin is soooo atractive. A much newer RR perhaps, but far too expensive (both purchase and running) and not my style.

I was musing over Isuzu Troopers or the Land Cruiser Amazon (vetoed by SWMBO on size grounds and, in any case, won't fit in my local tip) but wonder if I really need something that size any more. What I want is a

Richard

Yes and minor parts, I think a replacement screen was over GBP700!

AJH

What I want is a

A bit smaller but a Freelander?

TonyB

Sounds exactly the problems I had with Peggy ( RRC Vogue SE 3.5 -EFi) I cured it in the end by replacing the spades to the coil, the sensors and plugs then thoroughly cleaning the big one that connects to the ignition pack. Problem went away and never came back ( Lucas dealer supplied the plugs they are pretty cheap. pity they put sh*t ones on at Lode Lane) .If you get the problem again get an assisitant to turn the starter while you wiggle the leads it got me home a few times. Derek

Kato 200TDi Disco Miles 300TDi Disco ( project) Miles lives! running sweetly with just one maladjusted tappet the b*st*rd

I'm afraid that I'd need a great deal of convincing before I bought a Freelander. Don't they have a dreadful reputation for poor reliability

- judging from the contributions to this NG? I work for Land Registry and the surveyors there had a diesel Freelander - what a noisy gutless horror! It's been replaced by an X-Trail which seems the height of sophistication by comparison and is far nicer to drive than the Modeo diesel saloon that we sometimes use.

Richard

Thanks Derek

How about this for a explanation:

I noticed last night without giving it any significance that when I was prodding around the replaced plenum-to-inlet manifold pipe to show the recovery man what I had done, that the idle speed changed (briefly).

I've been fiddling some more today and found that I could reproduce the revs drop and then pickup and, best of all, actually make it stall by flicking the throttle from the idle stop to just off idle. If I disconnect the Throttle Position Sensor I cannot make the engine stall using the same process.

Engine (seems) to run happily without the TPS connected.

AIUI the TPS informs the ECU of fast movement of the throttle which results in more fuel being supplied to provide greater acceleration.

What do you think?

Richard

It sounds possible tho' I am not sure if that describes the operation of the TPS. I would expect that the increase in fuel supplied is related to the values supplied by the TPS and the airflow meter, an inbalance when the TPS value is high and the AFM lags behind, the ecu gives an increase in fuel? depends I suppose on how the ECU is mapped. Even so if the signal ain't getting thro then no extra fuel or maybe too much .Its a very basic device a carbon track potentiometer worth checking with the multimeter and maybe a squirt with switch cleaner? god knows how they justify £37 for a new one

Derek

Hi Derek

My understanding of it's function is only based on reading the manual - whether I actually understand what is written there is open to question! A squirt of switch cleaner is worth a try. Do I need to remove the TPS to do this successfully? I gather that I need only monitor the voltage, when refitting it, with a closed throttle and twist the TPS body until I get the mV as specified in the manual? Just like my bike!

I'm surprised that disconnecting it seems to have no effect on the engine - signs of imminent doom???

Richard

More or less what I did you don't get a lot of movement in any case I just tweaked mine to give a good idle I reckon the ECU confronted by lack of input will default to a failsafe setting unlike the p38 it resets itself when you restart which is just as well and saves on the£££ trip to the dealers ( I am still waiting for the Italian job to finish building their P38 software package before I consider one ) IIRC you will need to take the TPS off as the access to the gubbins ( technical term :-) ) is on the back side dead handy stuff switch cleaner works well on the leccy seat switches as well. You can check the range on the temp senders as well saves replaceing them unecessarily. Pity I was forced to sell the RRC when I had it running so sweetly.

Derek

On or around Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:55:30 +0000, Richard enlightened us thusly:

I had a fuel pump on one of the discos that ran slow and didn't produce full pressure, resulting in it starting and idling fine but dying when you booted it.

Right, TPS gives 250mV between Green and Red with ignition on and is not blessed with slots so I can't alter that figure.

From further fiddling I suspect that it is running (very?) rich from the word go and that including the TPS in the system merely makes things worse (richer). Viz: with TPS connected I am able to stall the engine with gentle throttle blips. Pulling a spark plug after the stalling reveals a very sooty object indeed. With the TPS out of circuit, the blipping does not cause a stall. However, after a few minutes at idle (700-ish rpm) the revs gradually rise to 1500+ with a suggestion that they will continue to rise. Engaging D drops the revs back to about 700.

Thoughts please!

TIA

Richard

BTW Hunt Grange suggested that I might like to pay £107+VAT for a TPS!

Before you do anything else, get the electrical troubleshooting manual. It's not hard to prove everything under the bonnet is working if you can use a multimeter, which you can.

After that you should be able to isolate whats causing it, or clear up the electronics.

You write much sense Nige.

Is the electrical trouble shooting manual which appears on the Range Rover Classic 1986-1994 Original Publications CD-ROM the one to which you refer?

TIA

Richard

Check the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator - if it's leaking/detached it'll run rich at low throttle openings. If it seems ok then check the fuel pressure, if it's higher than spec the regulator may need replacing (ETC8494 IIRC).

Ta.

Richard