Now you can buy a Series LR for the price of a new 110!

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OK, perhaps I'm being a little cruel! :)

Reply to
Exit
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Are there any prices on that site?

Reply to
Tom Woods

Yep, under 'Prices'.... :-)

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

Interesting that LR keep indicating that any new Defender will have problems regarding shape with new legislation - dosn't seem to be a problem in Spain!

Richard

Reply to
richard.watson

I honestly looked for a prices section! :)

Reply to
Tom Woods

On or around Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:18:43 +0000, Tom Woods enlightened us thusly:

yep.

and looking at the spec, it's an impressive piece of kit.

I wonder if Santana will go for a coil suspension version if LR stop building "proper" defenders?

mind, I see that the new disco is still on a separate chassis, from the sound of it.

but the Santana makes a good case for itself - it's basically a 110 body on an updated leaf-sprung chassis, with a better engine (possibly better than the 300 TDi, the Iveco 2.8 has a good reputation and they claim 125 hp and

275 Nm... how many Nms in a lbft?)

but the overall impression I got was quite impressive. If I was in the market, I'd probably be looking at it seriously.

now if they just did a V8 auto option... :-)

perhaps I should offer conversions, wonder how standard the dimensions are? They're using lower axle ratios than the RR/90/110, mind. stick a rangerover engine and box in it it ought to shift quite nicely.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Errrr. . . . .which bit - it's a Series 3 mechanically speaking for £20k!

That's 203 lb-ft, similar to a 200TDi and well behind the 2.8 version of the TDi you can now buy.

It'd be of a lot more interest if it didn't cost the same as a new 110 TD5! :)

Reply to
Exit

It has leaf springs, but apart from that, how similar?

I notice the Chevy Blazer still has leaf springs at the back. Didn't get a butchers at the front.

David

Reply to
David French

Part-time 4WD.

Lots of yank motors still have leaf springs - it keeps the cost down.

I've nothing against the Santana apart from it's price.

Reply to
Exit

Playing devil's advocate here, what are the drawbacks of part time 4wd? More economical isn't it?

David

Reply to
David French

As does the Nissan Navarra / Outback thing.

It doesn't look much like a Series 3 to me... Modern engine, modern(ish) interior, modern build standards. Well, ostensibly anyway.

It's odd that it is so much more expensive than the Japanese competition, but the Spanish price may be very different of course.

The Defender is quite advanced in many respects, but is ancient in some very important ones, not least secondary safety and interior ergonomics.

Reply to
Tim Hobbs

Maybe they have a Special Vehicles division in the pipeline?

Reply to
wayne

Theoretically it is, yes.

But part-time 4WD is no fun in mixed conditions - ie roads with snow, rain or ice on. Having to change in and out of 4WD as the conditions change is a bit of a pain! It also means any towing on road must be done in 2WD and you can't use low-box on hard surfaces such as for manouvring trailers or towing heavy loads.

Reply to
Exit

Pretty body on a leaf sprung, drum braked chassis. I guess it depends whether the most important things to you are whats underneath, or whats on top.

I imagine you could save a packet importing one yourself.

Not sure what you mean by secondary safety - it has ABS and airbags and the police rate it as *THE* safest car to have a crash in. If you mean it is bad if you are a pedestrian and you get hit by one, then that also applies to any commercial vehicle. The ergonomics are bad by todays standards, but the other strengths more than make of for them, I think.

Reply to
Exit

It has vented front disks.

ABS is only an option, not standard. No airbag, no side impact protection, driver sits outside main chassis protection, poor roll-over protection, no crumple zones, no seat belt pretensioners. Other than that it's fantastic.

Whether it is the safest car to have a crash in very much depends what you hit. If you can use someone elses crumple zone the stiff chassis and high seating position will be good. If you hit a tree you will come off much worse than you would in a Eurobox IMHO.

I'm not saying the Defender isn't a 'better' car than the Santana. Defender is still a great car, and I'd really love one, but I cannot ignore its shortcomings. And the basic 110 is over 4 grand more than a basic Santana.

Reply to
Tim Hobbs

On or around Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:30:38 GMT, "Exit" enlightened us thusly:

which, however, is about an extra 3 grand, isn't it?

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:44:38 -0000, "David French" enlightened us thusly:

having looked at one, it's *not* mechanically a Series III.

the chassis is similar, granted. The engine is much more modern, being a common-rail Iveco, the gearbox is the LT85 5-speeder, the axles are different though I don't know what type they are, and have disc brakes on the front and back, vented at the front. I dare say the 2.8 Iveco can be tuned up quite a bit, they use that engine in some pretty big vehicles. The gap between the Iveco and the TD5 isn't as big as you might think.

so spec-wise, disregarding the leaf springs (which are supposed to be pretty good) it's virtually a 110. The body is near enough the same as a 110, too, with certain advantages in the seating and loadspace departments, in fact; wider rear door, wider rear floor, mainly.

the rubber-mounted body seems quite a nice idea, too.

If you really wanted full-time 4x4, I'm sure you could fit the LT230 transfer box - the LT85 was, IIRC, a development of the LT95, so it ought to fit, or else a RR-type LT95 transfer box would.

Presumably, they've thought about this - it'd not be hard for them to convert it to full-time 4x4, so they must have decided not to.

also, the 20 grand is for all the extras, the basic one is 16. Not actually looked at new 110 prices recently.

NB, I'm not working for All-Terrain lot, nor Santa na. but the vehicle is pretty damn good.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:48:13 GMT, "Exit" enlightened us thusly:

'snot drum-braked. read the spec page.

and the parabolics, while not coils, come pretty close for comfort and articulation, especially, much better than the old multi-leafs.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:51:52 +0000, Austin Shackles enlightened us thusly:

wonder if the 3.9 plus auto box would fit... now that'd appeal to me...

Reply to
Austin Shackles

My comment above refers to the Nissan Navarra, not the Santana.

Defenders do have airbags - it's the law you know. All of the above yet still it was rated by the Police as the vehicle you were least likely to be seriously injured in during a major accident.

You'll have to argue that with the police figures, not me.

I agree the Defender has shortcomings, but the Santana doesn't address them very well if at all. Add to that the fact that most discount houses/importers can supply you with a 110 for the same price as the Santana, it's a no-brainer really.

Reply to
Exit

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