OT(ish): Hug a Hummer

Yeah, not impressed with them either, but then they are comparing the initial batch of overly-complex hybrids with a simple car that's made from bits of other cars. According to the author of the report;

"It would be totally different in three years. The hybrids will look significantly better. The new hybrids they are developing now the new ones that I've seen, Prius III and Prius IV are so much more simplified. They'll do what the current versions do, but with far less complexity, lighter motors, more recyclable parts, and longer lasting components. The current Prius, for all intents and purposes, will be the Model T."

The basic observation though was that the more complex a car is, the more environmentally expensive it is from cradle to grave. Roll on the Defender!

Original report is here;

Most of it is a fairly comprehensive list of individual vehicles, although only ones available in the states, so no Defender.

Range Rover is dwarfed by cars like VW Phaeton and Audi Allroad.

Well if the worst comes to the worst I expect I shall have to replace the engine of my series with a more efficient generator and then figure out how to replace the gearbox with an electic motor supplying power to the diffs, notwithstaning a few batteries here and there.

There was an electric Series vehicle taken out into the mojahve (sp?) desert in the US some time ago and did pretty well, big batteries and a generator to charge them. It was made using fairly basic technology but it did very well, more torque than the original engine. There was a web page about it but I've lost the link. Some deft googling might bring it back up if you want to try.

The latest electric motors, Brushless DC, Permanent magnet field jobbies have energy conversion efficiencies of 95% plus...

They need some clever electronics to drive them, but there is a price to pay for everything.

Steve

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On or around Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:51:35 +0000, steve enlightened us thusly:

a bit like the modern petrol and diesel engines, then...

Fuel cells are also supposed to give something over 90%, ISTR.

Well I did the bit of deft googling mentioned and the electric series landy is here;

As a quick summary, they replaced the engine in a 1971 Series IIA 88" with an electric job but kept the transmission including transfer case the same, and put it up against a conventional 1969 Series IIA 88" with a 2-1/4 litre, 4 cyl. petrol engine. Both had ARB air lockers, the same shock absorbers, same wheels and tyres. They then took it into the Moab 4x4 trails in Utah.

No mention of the range though. The web page states that it was covered in the January 2000 issue of LRM in the UK.

Wikipedia says Fuel cell vehicles running on compressed hydrogen may have a power-plant-to-wheel efficiency of 22% if the hydrogen is stored as high-pressure gas, and 17% if it is stored as liquid hydrogen."

which is quoted from

Steve

On or around Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:15:11 +0000, steve Taylor enlightened us thusly:

hmmm. ISTR reading that theoretical efficiency of a fuel cell is much higher than that. either the practice doesn't live up to the theory, or there are a lot of losses elsewhere.

Sure it wasn't the efficiency of the fuel cell itself, i.e. it's 90% efficient because what you get out of it is 90% of what went in when you add the cost of getting it in there? I don't see how a "fuel cell" could be "90% efficient" in any other way as it's just a fuel cell, the efficiency in converting what it contains into something useful is entirely down to the device the fuel cell feeds and not the cell itself.

On or around Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:23:36 +0000, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:

it was supposed to be the conversion of chemical energy to electrical energy. Obviously, the overall efficiency of a fuel cell car is going to be less than of the cell itself.

Well lets see:

Creating a nuclear furnace millions of miles away in space, converting that energy into plant life, and leaving it to ferment a few million years.

serching and drilling for it, transporting it around the world, refining it and then converting it back to energy. Anythings gotta be more efficient than that :)

'hamster' wheels for ASBOs?

One of the only landy mags i have somewhere has an article about a landrover factory electric conversion on a 2A.

Doesnt look too hard!. The price of batteries puts me off though.

Electric transport's getting closer, there's a project to fly around the world in an electric plane within 2 years, the same people who flew the Breitling Orbiter, and Boeing is developing an electric light aircraft. Compared with such feats, getting a Landy electrified shouldn't be hard 8-) Greg

aircraft.

Get it properly 'electrified' and at least any theif will have a shocking experience !

AWEM