P38 RaRo bits into 101's (Mother?)

Tom Woods uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Tis on my wish list, I'm currently battling with the "Origionality" of it all Morph being Morph. If Morph was any old truck It would be done. Dunno about the p38 gearbox thou... hang on..

Looks like your Choice is ZF 5 speed stptronicor GM5, the GM5 only appears to be fitted to the diesels.

Can't get a good view of the transfer box ouputs from here so you need to pay attention to these. You should retain your 101 manifolds for the exhaust at least.

Other question is how are Hi/Lo selected and how is the diff lock engadged. If both are manual you need to get creative. If the Diff lock is electronic then that would be a bonus as Bowden cables seem to cost a few quid, thats the cable which currently selects Hi/Lo.

EFi gubbings needs to fit width wise.. height won't be as much of an issue as the gear change lever will be no more.

Definatly need to get the tape measure out me thinks.

Lee

Since youve done a fair few 'mods' already, would a new engine and box make much difference. You'd be sticking with rover bits...

Looking at 101fc.net, Martyn has a ZF 4 speed. Wonder how much difference there is? (apart from the extra gear!)

Aye - especially since the exhaust is new!

Are the cables the same as a 90 handbrake cable? I have one of them stashed as it looked like it should do the job incase i fitted an overdrive!

How complicated is rover EFi? I'm going to LPG the truck either way.. -

Austin - what sort of LPG kit am i looking at for a rover v8i?. I was originally looking at the cheapest stuff i could get (like i have on my carbed car), but do you need difference stuff for an EFi - or might i just aswell stick with the carbs and the nice simple lpg mixer that goes in the elbow?

I'm sure it could 'fit'! :) Im just wondering if the bits are suitable and how big a job im looking at.

Is the gear selector on an auto on a cable rather than stuck to the top of the box? That would make my engine cover a lot nicer and mean less linkages all over the place!

Tom Woods uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Tis on the 4 speed and on Pecys BW66. Not certain about the 5 speed but suspect so or it would rock all over the shop.

Lee

On or around Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:29:30 +0000, Tom Woods enlightened us thusly:

Flapper or hotwire?

either way, the best answer is the cunning relays to disconnect the injectors. for a flapper one you shoudl have an opener to hold the flap open on LPG, and/or a backfire protector so you don't risk exploding the AFM.

Chris Perfect isn't doing gas (or springs) any more but a local chap has taken over running the business. Still the same phone number and website,

They do a variety of kits aimed at self-install. whether they'll sell part kits generally I don't know.

I have no idea (like i said - too new for me!)

Hmm. they arn't much more expensive than the normal kits :). I'll have to pop into the gas place here and ask them.

Tom Woods uttered summat worrerz funny about:

The one on our ES is a nice setup. Bigas. I think Car-Gas supply a similar system. Both are in effect sequential injection systems which tap in to the loom and fire up LPG injectors and shut down the petrol ones. Little more clever than that but saves all this worry about flaps and stuff.

You would need to get some milage to justify both the engine and box and also LPG set up thou. Personally I'd do the rest first then consider engines and boxes further down the line. At least you only have bite size chunks to deal with then.

Lee

If it's from a P38 then it should be GEMS

I don't think that this is going to be particularly cheap or easy. For a start if you take the engine as it is and drop it in you may find that your have problems if you want to LPG it leading to you needing a new ECU chip (it'll drop into limp home mode as the computer will recognise that it has lost control of the engine). I don't know how integrated the gems ECU is with the rest of the vehicle, but you are going to want to take EVERYTHING you can out of the donor, Lee_D mentions keeping manifolds, well - you're going to want to amend your downpipes at least then to get lambda sensors in, there will be a LOT of work in getting the thing going properly. And it is always the little things that eat up money.

I believe that Martyn used the front of an old V8 to get a dizzy on and had SU carbs but he can no doubt tell you how got his v8 running, I may well be wrong there.

If it were my vehicle then I'd definately fit the 4.0 but junk the gems parts and use an aftermarket controller to control fuel and spark which will get around most of the above issues nicely and if you're good at selling on eBay you might even break even with cost.

Regards

William MacLeod

P38 has prop shafts on wrong side of the vehicle, so the p38 transfer box is no good. Don't know if you can fit an LT230 onto a P38 box, but probably not.

Not if you fit a modern master/slave SGI system, the computer then knows no difference as it thinks you are still on petrol and has direct control over fuelling adjustment for correct lambda.

I think you'd need a substantial part of the harness and the Body Computer as well, to overcome any immobilisation issues within the ecu.

Valid point, but I wouldn't go carbs, you'll lose a lot of mid-range and top-end due to the vastly inferior inlet manifold design, best to fit an early front cover, 3.9 camshaft, 3.9 dizzy, 3.9 hotwire efi system and injection-suitable fuel pump - or a webber 500 and edelbrock manifold.

Badger.

Sorry if this is repeating what has already been said by others, but here's my tuppenceworth.

P38 has the prop-shafts on the wrong side, so the P38 box/transfer box is out.

4.0 V8 is either gems (>99) or Motronic (99>) management, either of which would be exceedingly complex to wire in, due to immobilisation issues. (Motronic needs to have a substantial part of the vehicle harness and the BCU computer or it won't work, Gems may be the same) Use the 4.0 engine, fit a 3.9 hotwire efi system complete, including inlet manifold (just don't connect the knock, crank and cam sensors) and harness. Fit an early-type timing cover (you need to replace the cam and followers as well) to allow fitment of a dizzy. Fit a swirl pot to the fuel tank and an efi fuel pump and "Bob's your uncle". I wouldn't fit carbs to an efi engine, a lot of the power increase comes from the efi system, mainly the inlet manifold design. If you must go carb for simplicity, then fit a Webber 500. Use a rangie classic / Disco mk 1 ZF 4 speed auto and transfer box and mod the props to fit.

Badger.

On or around Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:40:44 +0000 (UTC), "Badger" enlightened us thusly:

don't they use the ZF4HP24 or something? if so, I'd expect an earlier Tbox from a 4-speed auto to fit. Or are they not the 4-speed any more?

eeek.

that's way beyond my level of expertise.

Thanks everybody.

So i'm looking at for starters -

5 speed box wont fit, and i'd be better off getting a 4 speed auto. I can cope with this - I'm sure i can ebay the 5 and get a 4....

Remove the bits of the 4.0 engine that make it need the complicated ECU and fit a dissy. I'm happy with this. Sounds like i should break even or so on ebay. Is any of my 3.5 suitable? or do i need the 3.9 bits?

What does a swirl pot do?

Right. I'm definately going to LPG the truck as i plan to do some miles over the summer. My point was that is it worth sticking with the injection bits if im only using gas. How much more does a gas kit that uses seperate injectors cost?

Got that. Loads on ebay!

I've only just got my head around early 80's bosch K-jet systems! :)

the weber 500 carb and manifold seems very expensive on ebay :(

Can anybody offer any links to options for aftermarket control systems?

Tom Woods uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Use carbs. Once it's running you're only using them as a throttle anyway.

The 4.0 will be an improvement over the 3.5 despite the lower grunt the carbs/inlet manifold will give you.

After all it's not going to be a hill racer.

You will also need a very big auto oil cooler, next time you see grumble take a peek behind the grill.

Lee

Add in to that your new camshaft + followers, new gaskets, s/h front end, probably new water pump to fit, s/h alternator(?) new pulleys(?), s/h dizzy, new leads, new rotor arm, new dizzy cap, new coil, (and if you want efi fuel: s/h 3.9 wiring loom, s/h 3.9 ecu, intertia cut off switch) and I think you'll see that this could get expensive unless you happen to have the bits lying around (I have some of them...:-)

if you can wield a soldering iron and read a circuit diagram. Keep your engine in one piece, keep the power, keep the economy of efi. You'd need a megasquirt 1 squirt'n'spark or a megasquirt 2 setup to control fuel and ignition. Could work with lpg too. Kits start at just under two hundred dollars, I'd expect you could do the whole thing well for round about five hundred (you'd need to find out how the trigger sensing is done on your engine to find out what extra bits you'd need). If you could find someone near by to help you who has already done a V8 then they could go through it with you. I don't doubt in the slightest that it would be the cheapest in the long run, especially at the rate 101s go through juice! But I would recommend you seeing if you could find someone local to help you.

Regards

William MacLeod

Are any of the bits off my 3.5 suitable? I know i can make my alternator fit at the least! ;)

I'm starting to get put off now :( - though i may have the 4.0 and box anyhow and see how hard it could be..

I've looked at megasquirt before. Never read anything about how well it does with LPG. I've got mates who solder stuff for living's and am not adverse to attempting to butcher (that what said mate described my self playstation mod chip soldering job as!) stuff myself if needs must!

My exact thinking!. MY carb on the car is knackered but does a great job for LPG!

How much extra power in terms of numbers would i gain going from a carbed 101 3.5 to a 4.0 bottom end possibly with carbs?

I presume one of them will be stuck on the RaRo now anyhow? (breaking the whole thing)

Not seen a P38 one but be prepared to think bigger.

Lee D