"Part P" Electrical regulations

I quote

**Part P isn't working! The number of relevant fatalities has more than doubled since its introduction [Hansard 98144] probably due to the use of dangerous temporary 'lash-ups' rather than safe fixed wiring ? thus avoiding the hassle and expense of complying with Part P. There is no evidence to indicate that there has ever been a problem with non-professionally installed fixed wiring.**

DOUBLED !

Steve

Yes the number of fatalities has doubled according to the minister, but the reason was not mentioned, and the fatalities include those from electrical EQUIPMENT as well as installations. Equipment is nothing what so ever to do with part P which only covers installations so quoting these figures is dubious at best.

The reason for the rise that is suggested in the petition is pure speculation, it could very easily be a result of the cheap tat being imported from China by the shipload. Greg

Did you finish your training as a "Part P" inpector Greg, and is it lucrative?

AWEM

Oh yes there has been a problem! - Smiling Tony hasn't been able to tax it, er, sorry, I mean make a small charge for ensuring people have the correct training (as given by people with 20min experience in the job). No smiley.

Richard

In news: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com, Andrew Mawson wibbled :

My only problem with part P per se, is no Grandfathering. I've been involved in electricals for maybe 40 years, how come all of a sudden I'm incompetent? Incontinent maybe, but incompetent? I've seen, advised and trained many raw graduates who I would consider incompetent, some shouldn't be let out alone let alone entrusted with electricity, at least with a soldering iron they learn which end to hold eventually and they survived. But at the stroke of a pen by persons unknown, dare I say, unqualified, I'm deemed incompetent!

Pah!

I agree, having totally re-wired several houses and commercial premises over the years, that experience counts nothing against a spotty youth who has 'done the course'

AWEM

Too true. I employed a "spotty youth" a few years ago - partly because he'd done a Microsoft MCSE course (supposedly a good course) in the latest server OS. I was expecting him to bring me up to speed with the OS he'd done the course in - he knew f*ck all. He could just about install it, that was it - he didn't even seem to understand the most basic things about it. I sacked him 6 weeks later due to sheer incompetence. When I tried to get another job myself (despite my 15 odd years experience) I was told I couldn't even get an interview at most places as I hadn't done any MCSE courses. Bloody ridiculous.

Matt

I also have issues with part P. I am officially "unqualified", but like others it appears, I learnt from experiance, first on low voltage stuff in my bedroom at god knows what age, (like wondering how many volts I'd get out of a 12v transformer if I connect 240v to the 12v output, and then measuring the original input terminals making it a step up - I can't rememer what happened) - then helped brother in law (builder) to build his own house, I wired most of it at age 16. Then I buy a 20 year old bungalow here and discover the wiring is a disaster, all screw terminals loose in sockets and light switchs, bare live ends of cable in the attic, unprotected twin & Earth buried outside under 1 inch soil... and it goes on, and I know the place was done by a supposedly professional electritian. So who is safer??

Mind you I live in Scotland, so I have no idea if part P applies to me, or if any other similar regs apply up here.

Rant over.... :-)

Andrew

That said, the original analysis ALSO failed to make that distinction. In reality, its another European imposition I suspect, possibly goldplated as usual.

Steve

Nothing to do with Europe this time - AIUI the NICEIC bent the fat controllers lug hole and he couldn't resist being seen to do something. As usual with his meddling the result was another monumental f*ck up

In message , GbH writes

Solder has, of course, now been declared too dangerous to use. It's legal to hold the iron by the wrong end, but be caught with too much lead in your solder and you'll understand why the jails are overcrowded.

My relevant experience was that several years ago the local technical college sent us their annual 'work experience' person. This one turned out to be a young lady on a dancing course. After a brief discussion with the college, we decided the best thing would be to teach her how to solder, and she became pretty adept. I've often wondered where she is now.

"Matthew Maddock" wrote in message news:99rth.186$ snipped-for-privacy@nntpserver.swip.net...

The exciting thing about MCSE is the want to test you on OS that nobody uses yet while ignoring the legacy OS there are still folk out there using 98 because according to the maxim -if it aint busted dont pay Bill a wad of cash for a POS that will loose your data. Needless to say when they changed the requirements just as I was getting everything sorted I binned the idea of forking out another load of cash.

Derek

I got my 16th edition, inspection and testing and PAT testing (though not called that any more!) rather than doing the cut-down part P only 'domestic installer' course, but haven't yet got around to joining one of the schemes. So far my present work is more lucrative so it hasn't been worth it, but as they're building a plant in Malaysia which "won't lead to any job losses"... 8-( Greg

I understand it's a combination of Euro pressure and the vested interests of trade bodies, but there's nothing new in that. After all the wiring regs were always written by a trade body, adopted as a BS and embedded in law!.

As to being a f*ck up whell that's a matter of opinion, at least half the sparkies in the country have now been back to college (if they ever went in the first place!) and had a refresher course. Considering we're dealing with complex safety issues and changing rules I don't think that's a bad thing. Greg

But how would you decide who to issue Grandfather rights to?, anyone who says he's been doing it for 40 years?, what about those who've been doing it wrong for 40 years?. No offence intended, but you must realise that there are a hell of a lot of dangerous cowboys who could say how long they've been doing it.

The were a lot of old sparkies on the courses I did, all complaining about the same thing, and almost without exception showing their lack of understanding of even the basics.

The same thing happened to gas installers a few years ago and no doubt there were the same crys, but now people accept that gas installers have to be registered. Personally I think the idea should be extended, I don't want to employ a cowboy in any trade but have unfortunately been the victims of them. Of course it's not perfect but people aren't sugegsting anything better, just trying to go back to the previous situation which wasn't working. Greg

I don't think the issue is with regard to professionals - the bit that's pee-ing everyone off is that it affects DIY'ers. Whatever the trade may think about them, DIY'ers have completely failed to burn down houses in any significant numbers, so a problem that does not exist has been fixed (or probably created, since people will now hide what they have done) while real issues like road deaths, child abuse, etc etc go un-addressed. The whole thing is just a stealth tax, and doesn't contribute to safety, just the Exchequer. There's was no need to do anything.

Just my 2p.

Richard

By coincidence a colleague came to me yesterday to ask about wiring the old farm house he's restoring, he thought he was a competent DIYer but wondered how he would go on getting the board to provide a supply when there isn't one at present. I mentioned that he would need to know what type of supply they were prepared to supply BEFORE he could wire up, at least before he could install a consumer unit, earth bonding etc, and he was completely baffled. As far as he was concerned it was 3 wires and that was that. Mention of TT, TNS and TNCS drew blank looks and it was clear he wasn't competent to wire a safe home for his family.

Fortunately, once I had explained that the board would demand an installation certificate before making the connection, that the building inpector who was visiting for the rebuild would also scrutinise the certificate under part P, and that he couldn't just get a NICEIC sparky to rubber stamp his diy wiring for a few reddies (they're not allowed to issue an installation certificate for someone elses work), he realised that he had to do things properly.

So in my book the new system worked, without part P he could have botched it and faxed a declaration to get the supply connected, and probably left his family at serious risk. Greg

Trade body? it was a supposedly Professional Instition. Sadly it has lost its way. It fails miserably to represent its Member Engineers. These days 'an Engineer' is someone what fixes washing machines, restrings power cables or installs your cable TV. A far cry from Brunell, Faraday and Kelvin!

I learnt my electrickery _from_ my grandfather, who was in the business around a century ago, installing three-phase motors in woollen mills.

And I've seen professional electrical installations which might have been according to the standards, but would have had you standing on a ladder, in the dark, to change a fuse.

Passing the exam doesn't test common sense.