Random questions

. I also need to learn to drive...

Air portable ( be prepared for repairs), 90 or defender 90, S III. Don't bother with anything like a LWB at your age insurance companies won't touch you and you need an addition to your licence for the extra seats ( unless its a hardtop )

"Hirsty's" wrote in news:8515f.712$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe5-win.ntli.net:

For some reason I had problems insuring a pickup. Check before you buy. Insurance varies -- a lot!

Derry

In news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, Derry Argue blithered:

A Pickup is classed as a commercial vehicle as is a hard top with no windows in the back (van).

You sure you want to learn to drive in a Land Rover?

6 number in the Lotto...

In reality, no car, Land Rover or otherwise, is going to be cheap to insure. You'll be lucky to get a half decent quote on a Micra.

So, if you're really set on a Landie, perhaps look at an ex-military vehicle and put it on a collectors policy. The easiest way by far is to get someone else to insure it, and wait until you're over 25, then go shopping for cheap(er) insurance in your own name.

Once upon a time, people learned to drive in slow, heavy, noisy cars with awkward 3 or 4 speed gearboxes, poor mirrors, limited visibility, minimal acceleration, un-assisted brakes and steering, no headlamp flashers, no reversing lights, no rear wipers, hopeless front wipers, ineffectual (or no) demisters and heaters, and so on. Making the transition to a slow, heavy etc etc Land Rover wasn't then much of a problem. But now it might be. Compare and contrast the average driving school Micra or Yaris with even a relatively sophisticated Land Rover, like a Defender, and you'll see what I mean. Try reverse parking a Series Land Rover, at night, in the rain, with the tiny rear window misted up - as you'll have to, if it's to be an everyday vehicle.

So there'll be one hell of a culture shock.

As for the other requirements: "relatively economical" - well, in terms of initial purchase price, you can indeed pay the same range of prices for a Land Rover as a proper car, and spares are often very cheap; but they all drink fuel like there's no tomorrow (if you assume twice as much as a normal medium-sized car, you won't be far off), and if you buy too cheaply or unwisely you could face some serious bills for work beyond the average novice mechanic. Oil and filter changes, plugs and points, and so on, are easy enough, but older Land Rovers may well need major welding. Sometimes the sheer size of Land Rover components makes a job that much harder. Tyres may be cheap compared with exotic 30 profile rubber bands on the dafter type of modern car, but not compared with a 155R13.

"cheapish to insure" - ring around and get some insurance quotes before you get too keen: unless you've got money to burn, you'll probably find newer Land Rovers prohibitively expensive to insure. People here will tell of premiums under a hundred quid a year, but that's probably for an old bugger like me insuring one under a "classic" policy which you can only buy if you've got another car insured.

"in pretty good nick" - means spending what? at least £1500-£2000 for a

25-50 year-old Series Landy, perhaps three times as much for a 10 year-old Defender.

"has a radio". Forget it. You'll never hear it except when you're parked up.

"carry quite a bit of kit". In theory, perhaps, but in practice an Astra estate is a lot more use. Land Rover doors are narrow, and the load space short, high off the ground, and filled with the spare wheel. Series Landies have pathetically low legal towing limits, though that won't concern you as your licence won't cover you for big trailers.

They're great vehicles for their original purpose, and, for many, fun to play with, in, and under. I run a Range Rover as my everyday car, because I regularly need its special ability to tow, so I'm certainly not anti-Solihull, but I can think of many far more suitable cars for a new, young driver to cut his teeth on.

Mm. I can attest to that. Insurance for under-25's, even on Group 2/3 insurance that Series SWB landrovers attract is still prohibitly expensive. It's well worth doing Pass Plus after your test, as this does help with insurance premuims.

I was lucky enough to pursuade my insurance company to remove the under-25 weighting on my insurance when i was 22, in view of my posession of a PCV licence, they originally insisted i would have to take Pass Plus to get a reduction, until i pointed out that the standard required for PCV licence is far above that of Pass Plus anyway.

Alex

Kevin Poole wrote... "They're great vehicles for their original purpose, and, for many, fun to play with, in, and under. I run a Range Rover as my everyday car, because I regularly need its special ability to tow, so I'm certainly not anti-Solihull, but I can think of many far more suitable cars for a new, young driver to cut his teeth on."

...on the other hand... you might love it! I had my first landy at the age of 21,('66 series 2a for £600, then '75 series III for £1500, both hard tops and in need of TLC.) I loved it and got bitten by 'the bug'. I did lots of work on it myself, things I'd never have contemplated doing on a car. Jobs like changing leaf-springs, drum brakes, gearboxes etc. Mainly because it was easier to work on - provided you had a workshop manual and the right tools for an old Landy! I joined a LR club, went to shows and RTV Trials. Brilliant! You can't go too fast in them because of the high C of G. So you'd do well too keep clear of the 'Boy Racer' idiots in baseball caps with their track suit bottoms tucked into their socks, (what's that about?). You can fit your fancy stereo in, and there's loads of room in the back for a huge sub woofer and amp...or the girlfriend! ;) Don't worry about the anti 4x4 pillocks and tree huggers, Landys are very recyclable. Second-hand parts available everywhere! There are fun days and centres that have private land for playing off road on should you want too.

Personally I think you should try to get a 90 Hardtop, failing that a series III Hardtop.

If you get one and don't like it, you can easily sell it on and at least you can say you'd tried.

Good Luck. Wolverine. Defender 110CSW

The easiest way by far is

Take care, if you are considered the main user this is illegal and viewed as not being insured by the boys in blue. Same applies to the driving of a spouses vehicle on the 3rd party clause, one reson Norwich is getting rid of it.

In message , GbH writes

Really? My hard top doesn't cost that much to insure with NFU, and no-one ever discussed with me whether it was being insured as a commercial vehicle. They just quoted a price. Maybe it was.

For the OP, all I can do is repeat what I say quite often - that we had

2 Panda 4x4's and both sons spent their time with these. They travelled all over the country and launched boats into the sea. They were also Group 1 insurance, and perfect for teaching about the perils of rust. And Fiats always made you learn about electrics and other maintenance. Great, fairly simple, cars for young people who do things and don't care what they look like. Terrible shame there was such a gap between the end of the last model and the recently introduced new one. When I talked to insurers about our 18 year olds and the possibility of a Landie, all I heard was "No". I didn't try the specialist insurers then, though.

Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense.

My landy was the first car i insured in my name when i was about 20 or so. I found it to be a lot cheaper to insure than the cars i had at the same time (a couple of old saabs and a volvo).

The landy started at about £350/year i think compared to my car which was £1000-£1500/year.

I had an old series 2a, so it gets classic car insurance - which is a lot cheaper than normal insurance! Try all the classic insurers that advertise in the mags. I've been with 3 or 4 of them over the years!. They all have different age limits (some are over 25s only, but not all)

Beg to differ, but one of my colleuges fell foul beware

Can cite the relevant legislation?

Surely the question is "Is this acceptable to the insurance company?" ie: "Will they pay if you have an accident?"

If it is then you are legally insured. If not you aren't.

nigelH

Surely the problem would be that if you are the main user and not delared as being such then your insurance would be invalid (since you would have lied to the insurance company), so in the event of a claim you would not have insurance. But if you had to produce your documents to the Police, as your name would presumambly be on the certficate in some form, then they would be unable to tell if the cover was valid or not. In other words it would not be illegal as such (since you would appear to have cover) until things went wrong.

Well, I think I know what I mean.....

Richard

I think there's confusion over what the Law requires and what the insurance company may feel is adequate. The law requires the vehicle to be insured to at least pay out for any third party liability.

Provided that the cover provided is for 'any driver', or 'named drivers', or proposer plus spouse - and also provided that the person driving falls into one of those, and also provided that the 'use' is covered within the scope of the policy - the law is happy. I cannot find any reference to 'main user' in this respect, neither could our court clerk (although it's not really her area of expertise).

Many insurance companies require that the cover is in the name of the registered keeper (note, the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner).

Not at all. Insurance companies are weaseling parasites who may, in the event of a claim, decide you're not covered as you have fluffy dice hanging from the rear view mirror. However until tested, you may very well have perfectly acceptable insurance cover so far as regard the requirements of the law.

And others (including Hastings Direct) require that the cover is in the name of the main user and not the registered keeper.

Dave W

Hi Chris,

Whilst a Landie is obviously a desireable vehicle to own it is definately not the best thing to learn in and unless it is a relatively modern one will not meet the criteria of a vehicle suitable for taking your driving test in. Check out the DSA web site -

I have known examiners cite the speed requirement of older Land Rovers as the reason for refusing to conduct a test and unless you have after-market seats fitted then there are no integral head restraints on older Landy seats.

The sensible option (although not the cheapest) is to learn in a normal car with a professional driving instructor. Use his car to pass your test in and then move on to a Land Rover. Oh, and don't forget to take the Pass Plus course.

You can get some good insurance discounts by then taking an advanced driving test after which some insurance companies will waive the under-25 loading. Ring around and check what they say; get them to confirm the discount/waiver in writing.

HTH. Good luck with learning to drive :-)