Range Rover with LPG

Hardly worth bothering about, you'll spend all your time at the local filling station! Unless you're getting really cheap gas - that's probably about 8.5 gallons - at 15MPG you'll get about 130 miles to a tank.

Look for a device called a vapouriser, it'll have coolant hoses going to it, a high pressure gas pipe and a thicker gas hose as well. It should have a name on it. Taking photos of it should help identify the system.

Possibly clogged injectors? Petrol systems die if they're not used regularly, I've had problems with carbs in the past when I've used LPG exclusively for a period. Your sparks are probably OK if everything runs smoothly on LPG.

There may be a starting procedure to allow the gas system to run rich at startup and bypass any closed loop system. Take photos of the gas system under the bonnet and any control boxes that are connected and someone will probably be able to help you.

Regards

William MacLeod

Thanks for the help, ill take photos and place them on a website, will post the links here later.

Thanks again.

Follwing your previous post i have uploaded some photographs of what i believe is the LPG system, these photogrpahs are on a very simple web page which will just show *.jpg filenames, just click on any of these to see the images, the URL is at http://82.70.77.66/RR/ .

Tartarini LPG kit - I'll have a look at me books tomorrow.

The vaporiser suggests it's a Tartarini system. It looks like a very early system with a fixed regulator so it's not what you'd call state of the art ! I've not seen a system that injects so far away from the plenum chamber before, normally the injector ring is mounted at the throttle body.

The main importer/distributor for Tartarini is just down the road from me near Thirsk. If you're anywhere close it would be worth taking it to them to look at. Failing that you could give them a ring and see if they can help.

The tank in the back looks like a 45 litre tank.

HTH

cheers

Dave W.

Are you saying it starts badly on LPG, or is it forcing a start on petrol? If the latter, I'd suggest that this was the default starting setting. Most LPG controllers force a start on petrol, then you have to rev the engine, typically to a couple of thousand revs or so, for it to switch. There is usually a way to override this and start directly on LPG. I have a different controller, but I suggest trying this:

1) turn ignition on 2) flip the controller switch to Petrol, then back to LPG 3) start engine.

There is much in favour of starting directly on LPG - less engine wear, cleaner startup emissions, better economy... Because LPG is already a vapour when it entres the induction tract there is no need for the excessive enrichment that petrol needs in a cold engine.

However, starting on petrol means that the petrol system gets some regular use, which is important, or it starts to gum up. This may be the problem you have.

I have adjusted the changeover revs on my controller to zero, which effectively makes the switch a simple choice between petrol or LPG.

My first LPG car(Alfa 155) did this after 18 months of the car being converted. It turned out the injectors were gummed up with old petrol. Your local friendly mechanic should have a piece of kit that can test the spray pattern. (It looks like a jam jar that the injector sits in the top and the petrol is recycled round)

My Alfa was a tartarini kit with a Micro-switch type changeover. To force the engine to start on LPG you switch it to petrol and then press and hold the switch for 3 seconds. The LPG light should be on constantly rather than flashing. On my Saab its a proper rocker type switch. you need to switch to petrol and then straight back to gas to force the start on LPG.

HTH

For my two pennorth get rid of the little tank and fit a 110 ltr, you can buy them cheaply enough on e-bay. But check the tank fitted angle, the valve looks very low. Agree it's a tartarini and parts are available from autogas

2000 at Carlton Miniott. (The stores there are good and parts are despatched quickly) There was a known fault with these vapourisers, as originally supplied they had a black rubber cup on the valve, which was the wrong grade for LPG. There is a part known as the "red cup upgrade". I would tend to service the vapouriser anyway. From the photos, it looks like an 88 or 89 3.5 not a 98 4.6. Have had starting probs with these due to the little relays under the airfilter having got corroded terminals. The switch looks to have a changeover rpm trimmer on it which may need adjusting. But you should only need to start up and then drive away. I assume it is the "injection switch" and it should change over as revs increase, not as they decrease which is for a manual gearbox.

Rob>

That's always puzzled me, that bit - the way it switches as the revs fall. Makes more sense on a manual. I've got the wrong type.

Thanks, very grateful.

I am not that far away, maybe 30 miles, RR has Ripon Landrover badges on it.

Thanks.

Im not really certain, but i think it is starting on petrol, and struggles to rev to 2,500. There is a yellow light that i think signifies running on petrol, if this stays lit, the engine cuts / dies, if this light goes off, the engine starts. When on Petrol only setting, the engine does similar, but wont run more than a few seconds, wont rev, just dies. I could make small video of the problem if needed.

Tried this, no difference, but thanks for the hint.

Any idea how i could do this with this unit ?.

In http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1877.JPG.jpg you can see a solenoidattached to the vaporiser (tucked under the vapour pipe). This has toopen for the engine to be able to run on LPG, so if you pull off oneof the wires that activate it, you will soon see if it starting onpetrol.

I'm not familiar with your make of vaporiser, but it seems to be mounted rotated through 90 degrees. All the ones I've seen have the solenoid at the top, and the copper pipe from the tank coming into the side. This may not affect its operation, but draining the sludge out of it (should it ever accumulate any - mine never has) may not be possible because the drain plug won't be at the bottom.

And runs OK? If it runs OK on LPG, but not petrol, this implies that it is a petrol system problem, which may simply be gummed up injectors/carbs.

Not specifically, but on mine there was a little trimming pot. accessible through a hole in the back of the unit. What does the control on the side of your unit do, visible in http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1874.JPG ?

Ill consider that for the future, but to be honest i will be doing very little mileage, we have two newish diesel cars, the RR is just for short journeys in winter and for doing some off roading on land surrounding where we live. Nearest LPG garage is only a couple of miles away also, but i must admit i was very surprised by the small size of the tank.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the vapouriser, and how can i service it?, sorry but i know nothing about LPG systems, but very willing to learn.

Yes, sorry about that, a rather critical stupid typo, it is an 88 3.5 manual, paid £800 for it with test until April 2005, taxed till Sept

04.

Ill have a look for these relays tomorrow, ill remove the airfilter to see whats below it.

Do you mean the switch inside the cab?, if so i am looking at IMG_1874 , is it the little black button on the underside ?.

I have uploaded also a new image, http://82.70.77.66/RR/IMG_1890.JPG,this image shows the coil with a wire ( blue/white left hand terminalwith black cover)running from it to a green relay, the relay end ofthe wire appears to be just pushed into a hole where the relay sits,does anyone have a clue what this wire could be there for, itcertainly doesnt appear to be factory standard.

I might have to take the injectors 20 miles or so away to have then tested and will do this after i've checked the relays etc.

The RR has a rocker type switch, ill try as you suggested, do you do the swithcing with the ignition on ?.

In that case it's also worth knowing that Maddison4x4 are about 2 miles away from Autogas 2000 and can fix the petrol side for you :-)

They do a lot of this sort of work for Autogas 2000 when the petrol side starts playing up.

cheers

Dave W.

I just had a quick look through my Bookmarks for a site that gives an outline of how LPG fueling works, but they all seem to have vanished. You could have a look at a page I put together about the conversion I did to my car; it gives a broad idea of how it all goes together, but it doesn't address the cutting edge of development.

The controller needs to pick up a signal that the engine is running, which it can do from the coil. If the engine stops, the solenoid(s) in the fuel line will close as a fail safe measure. Not sure why the link would be made via a relay, though I supose that is one way of doing it.

Or it may be something entirely unrelated to the LPG system. Disconnect it while the engine is running on LPG and see if it stops.

OK, i will have a look at this.

OK, ill see if there is one anywhere.

Yes, it runs fine on LPG once it appears to switch over to it, seems underpowered on LPG but i expected that.

Other people have suggested looking at some relays etc, which i am going to do tomorrow.

I dont know, if it rotates i will change it's position slightly, (clockwise i suppose), to see if it has any effect.

Ill try and explain better how the engine starts; If i try to start on petrol alone, (rocker switch to the right, just red light lit) the engine catches, revs go up to 1,000 with no misfiring, runs for maybe

4 or 5 seconds, then simply dies, you would just think the engne had started with almost no fuel.

The same applies on gas, and if you try to rev the engine, it splutters and dies, unless you manage to get the engine to reach 2500 revs, where you can hear a click, a yellow light on the control unit goes out, and the engine revs freely after this. When doing this you cannot have the engine running and rev it to 2,500 , but if you crank it on the starter, and keep some throttle on, then it may catch and switch onto gas.

There seems to be a knack to this, which i havent mastered yet, and it is very difficult to start from cold, but when hot is much easier.

If you would like a video placing on a web page of the starting problem, ill be only too happy to do this.

Is the petrol very old. It may just be that it hasn't been used on petrol for an age. Take it to the top of a long hill, switch it to petrol and see if you can get it to run on petrol. If the injectors are blocked and the petrol is old then a bit of perseverence may get it working again. It seems to me that you need to sort the petrol side before you start tweaking the gas system.