Series ignition

A bit of Googling might come up with some info already out there on changing to electric ignition on cars such as 4 cylinder austins and minis etc, not too much difference there. Seen some previous discussions about a kit that allows you to revert to standard, handy if it should fail on you. I think it might have been a Maplins kit. I'm sure it's been covered before here so should be archived somewhere.

Why ?

'Cos I'm already fed up of points! And I've only been working on the truck today after an 18 month layoff!

Also, an engine swap is on the cards at which time I'll probably replace he dizzy with a new one. I'd fancy electronic rather than points by preference.

in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Tim Hobbs at snipped-for-privacy@101ambulance-urine.net wrote on 5/9/04 0:05:

Daisy has a Luminition system fitted, it cost a bit and was a bugger to fit as she is posative earth but is probably the best thing I have had fitted. She starts easer runs smoother and has no problems in the damp.

I had it fitted after I found that the plate in that holds the points the dizzy had become loose and ill fitting and couldn't tighten down anymore. It came loose on a little offroading trip with a 1942 WC 53 and a 1965 CJ5 jeep but still managed to get me back to base where we bodged it with some srs 2 bits to get me home, and I still had to tow the bloody jeep back.

Nothing wrong with points. At least when they go wrong you can change them for next to nothing.

Alex

There was a time when I might have though electronic ignition an advantage but since I have never had any problems so far and since electronic ignition is one of these things when it goes wrong is not repairable by the roadside, I would leave well alone.

There is a system I believe where you leave the points in place, or at least there used to be back in the days when points were common.

Given the much better starting, and often better fuel economy you can get with electronic ignition it's well worthwhile. Also once you've set the timing there's nothing to move or wear so maintenance is reduced.

At work we have a customer base of over 1000 vehicles mostly with electronic ignition. I see a failure maybe twice a year, but I get called out to points vehicles (of which there are probably only 100 or so) that won't start on cold mornings with monotonous regularity.

Starting I have never had a problem with, even on a practically flat battery that half turns the moter over.

Odd that, but how many of your vehicles with electronic ignition get the electronics immersed in water? With the possibilty of mistakes whilst fording etc, and the amount of water and mud thrown up under a landrover bonnet I'd prefer a set of points. At least you can dry them out and carry on, which is not an option with shorted electronics.

I drive landrovers largely because of thier ability to be fixed at the roadside, and anything electronic tends to negate that ability. I'd like to see someone cure a fuel blockage in a EFI engine with nothing more than one screwdriver at the roadside, which is something I have had to do with my carb on more than one occasion. And I've lost count of the number of times I've had to take a screwdriver to the points on various landrovers. At least mine CAN be fixed at the roadside, and for bugger all cost as well.

Alex

The electronics aren't generally worried by water, but still suffer the same HT side dampness problems as a points system. I've never killed the electronics in a distributor by drowning them, and both my Hilux and my Series get well used off road.

I have a spare distributor (total cost about 10 quid from the breakers) in my Series and I can fit it in less time than it takes to clean & reset points. Even when I had a points distributor I carried a spare and would normally fit it rather than bother cleaning points in the field. And the electronic distributor doesn't have a condensor to die at an inopportune moment. I also find there's about 5% better fuel economy with the electronic distributor because I can run a fractionally leaner mixture without trouble.

On or around Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:50:56 GMT, Alex enlightened us thusly:

there again, I tend to suspect that the ignition amp modules are sealed.

The electronic systems are a lot tougher than most people think and are, in most cases, better equipped to withstand water than their "mechanical" equivalent. The electronic distributors, for example, use a halle effect sensor that is fully sealed and a ring that spins around near it. There is no mechanical contact between the two. Unlike a points system there is nothing to wear out in there so faults are very rare. OUtside the distributor you have an amplifier which, again, is fully sealed against water. These can fail but having run these distributors in a number of vehicles over the last 12 years I have yet to have a failure.

I think, to a certain point, you have pointed out (if you'll excuse the puns) the flaw in your argument.

As far as a fuel blockage is concerned, EFi systems cope much better with bad fuel than a carb because they have much better filtering and work at higher pressures. They don't have moving parts that can get blocked such as the float valve system on most carbs and they force fuel through their jets (injectors) at extremely high pressure rather than depending on passing air sucking fuel droplets out. In the last 5 years of running an EFi in challenge competitions, trials competitions and general road use I have had one breakdown.

That particular breakdown was nothing to do with the EFi as such but was caused by a badly routed vent pipe on the fuel tank syphoning water in while I was crossing a bonnet deep lake. (

for the gory detail). Despite the ECU being completely submerged for about 5 minutes and the fuel pump putting several gallons of muddy water through the filter and injectors the vehicle was still able to compete the following day after we had put clean fuel in it. The fuel pump failed at the end of the following day but when I was running carbs with a FACIT fuel pump that was an annual occurance. I've never had to take the distributor cap off mine other than to wipe condensation out after deep wading or during a normal service.

Whilst it is true that if something in the electronic breaks internally that the ECU can't cope without you are pretty much stuffed, IME the chances of something actually breaking and forcing you to stop are much less than with a conventional setup. Even if you "lose" a major component such as the air flow meter the ECU will drop into "get you home" mode and allow you to continue driving. My regular team mate runs the same ignition system as me but has carbs fitted. Over the past few years competition we have spent a lot more time with the bonnet open on his motor than mine, unblocking breather pipes adjusting fuel return restrictions, tweaking the mixture etc... His vehicle also copes less well with deep water than mine for some reason and has had a history of struggling to cope with extreme angles (usually when hanging nearly vertical on the end of a winch rope) when the engine will often die.

We each have our own preferences and our own views and I have to admit that my first EFi Land Rover scared me to death with it's apparent complexity. Now I have swapped carbs and points for EFi and electronic ignition I wouldn't go back to a carb system. I'm about to replace the distributor with a distributorless ignition system too so I can improve it's deep wading performance.

cheers

Dave W.

I must admit 2.25's are pretty good like that - my one starts on the 2nd compression every time, but used to be a bit harder to start when it had points. The other benefit is that once you've set the timing with an electronic distributor it stays set.