suspension: SafariGard or Scorpion ?

Can anyone direct me to any comparison tests between SafariGard & Scorpion suspensions? Also first hand experience/advice would be appreciated.

I'm planning to upgrade the suspension on my 95 Defender 110 Station Wagon for driving off-road. For the past 10 years I've been using OME springs and shocks on this vehicle but now I need a bit more clearance and wheel articulation.

I am particularly interested in how these extreme suspension mods may affect the vehicle's handling on hard surface roads. I suspect some negative effect ... but will the vehicle become tipsy on the curves? :p

Reply to
beeps123
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Beeps Hi,

Before we start discussing about the various options you can have in relation to choosing a long travel suspension kit please be advised that I represent Scorpion Racing in Greece and therefore I do have a connection with them. Regardless of the above though the main scope of everybody on this list (the undersigned included) is to provide the best possible assistance to fellow LR enthusiast, so in this scope I will try and provide as much input as I can.

First of all you will have to decide on how you will be using your Landy from now on.

A 110 is by definition not a trialing machine. If you plan on using your 110 for long trips on roads or paved gravel road or medium offroading excursions at medium to relatively high speeds (up to

65 to 70 mph) I would recommend that you do NOT fit a suspension lift kit. A good proposal is to fit a suspension kit which will move the downwards travel of your shocks even lower. This is called the EVO kit. In this way you will gain a bit of downwards travel (the one that mainly matters when contact to the ground and therefore mobility and traction are required) but it will not increase the height of your vehicles center of gravity and will not affect in any negative way your straight line stability, increase the body roll when turning and increase the vehicle's already sensitive nature on crosswinds. Also remember that a relatively higher vehicle is more unstable when the road is slippery.

This sort of kit is not expensive and you can use it with your existing shock absorbers and coil springs if they are OK. It also comes complete with the required coil springs relocation and securing kit and longer brake hoses (you will read further down why)

From my point of you this is a solution with no drawbacks (apart from having to buy the kit) but providing a good upgrade on your vehicle's offroading capability.

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Increasing the suspension's height will also result in additional expenses if you wish to retain the factory set front axle and steering geometry. Fitting longer suspension bits (coils and shocks) results in upsetting the castor angle which is responsible for how much "feel" you get from your steering wheel and how effective the self centering characteristics of the steering system are (namely the steering wheel will tend to be much slower into returning to the center position when the vehicle is on the move and you turn it left or right) In order to remedy this problem you will have either to change the chrome balls with ones with the castor angle corrected or change your radius arms (the bars that run parallel to the chassis and connect the chassis to the front axle, or change the bushes of those arms connecting them to the axle with modified ones which are eccentric. The cheapest solution is the third one but it is the least effective and the fastest one to go wrong or need replacement. The one that is usually adopted is the replacement of the radius arms.

One more drawback of increasing the suspension's height is that there is a VERY strong possibility that you will end up upsetting the angle of rotation of the propshaft (the axle that transmit the power from the center differential and transfer box unit to the front axle). As a result you will feel that the vehicle moves with increased vibration and this may eventualy result into damaging the universal joints and/or the splined section of the propshaft, the front diff's and transfer box's flanges, bearings and finally if not addressed in time the diff units themselves. The remedy is to replace the propshaft with another one with increase angle of rotation (yoke) or a double cardan one as fitted to the Discovery S2 generation of vehicles from the factory (non genuine LR units are available from a few sources apart from SR themselves)

Of course let's not forget that increasing the suspension height will also DEMAND a necessary replacement of the brake hoses with longer ones especially if you plan on making use of the increased suspension's travel downwards. Not replacing them may end up in you being stranded with a raptured brake hose pulled out of is caliper.

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More extreme suspension kits (like the extreme from Scoprion Racing, or Equipe, the three links front axle kit from Safari Gard or G2F) will definately require the above modifications to the radius arms (the SG and G2F kits include them while the SR and Equipe ones do not) the rear axle's trailing arms (SR and Equipe kits include those while SG and G2F not necessarely so) and BOTH propshafts front and rear (no kit includes those). Replacement brake hoses are provided with the G2F, the Scorprion Racing and the Equipe kits.

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As for upsetting road manners ALL those kits do have negative effects on the stability of your vehicle and according to my point of view should only be used off the road. The only exception being the shock absorbers lowering kit without suspension height increase. (the EVO kit)

All other suspension kit (including the VERY popular +2" suspension lift coil springs and shock absorbers kits have negative effects on your vehicle's stability and could therefore lead into a serious life threatining situation which would have been altogether avoided if the car was sitting at its factory specified suspension and bodyshell height.

I am sorry for the lenght of this posting but I tried to provide you with a detailed reply, at least as much as my knowledge on this topic allows.

Take care Pantelis Giamarellos LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE

Reply to
Pantelis Giamarellos

Thanks Pantelis for your very thoughtful and helpful response!! It's given me a lot to ponder!

I knew a lot of this already but this doesn't deter from the usefulness of the information provided. I didn't know of the EVO kit and I'm looking into that now. So thanks again!

Actually I've been driving the Defender for about 10 years with the OME springs & shocks (maybe 1.5 inch lift?) and I have to say that this suspension (with my V8 tuned for torque) brought the stock vehicle "alive". It's really a pleasure to drive on and off-road. And frankly I think it corners better on the hard surface than it did with the stock suspension. I could have bought a new Defender some time ago but this one is really too much fun to drive.

Also I've three other 4WD vehicles which I've upgraded (2 Jeep Wranglers and a HiLux) with OME suspension kits. In one of the Jeeps I experienced the viabration which you referred to and it was a pain to resolve, requiring new driveshafts, shorter transmission output yoke, replacing bushings and lowering the transmission and some other odds and ends. So I'm aware that I may run into these problems if I lift the Defender any further.

These vehicles aren't used for rock-crawling. I suppose the better description of their use would be "expedition & work" in tropical jungle type terrain including mountains, river fording, mud, clay, thick dust, driving over irrigation ditches and rice-paddy field dikes, etc etc ... However about 50% of driving time is on hard-surfaced roads at reasonably high speeds (50-65 mph) for a defender and perhaps 25% is on rough corrugated dirt & stone (semi hard) surface while the remaining 25% is on the rough stuff. One of the biggest problems I have driving in the "field" is bottoming out when driving on hard clay roads that have been deeply rutted by large trucks when the roads were muddy. These deeply rutted roads can sometimes go for miles. This, plus the rocky streams (with the occasional hidden boulder) and the irrigation ditches make me sometimes wish for a different suspension with a bit more clearance perhaps. The Defender already has full underbody protection, locking diffs, and stronger half-shafts.

About once a year the Defender is used for two or three weeks in rather extreme off-road driving conditions, i.e. no road for all practical purposes. And where bridging ladders, axe, shovel, winches, ropes and pulleys and high-lift jack are used regularly. I once got this Defender stuck under a huge house-sized boulder when I was trying to inch around it's downside on a steep mountain slope. Airing the tyres down was the way out.

As this Defender ages, it is increasingly becoming reserved for the most difficult trips, while the HiLux is used for the easy trips. The Wranglers are "camp vehicles".

I would like for the suspension on the Defender to be a bit more capable and perhaps another inch in ground clearance ... but I don't want an unstable vehicle on the hard surface roads. Thus the dilemma.

Reply to
beeps123

Beeps Hi again,

I guess one solution would be for you to fit slightly larger tyres so as to gain the ground clearance where it really counts and namely not only on chassis/bodyshell distance from the ground but also and more importantly on distance from the lower mechanic points those being the diffs on the front and rear axle.

The only drawback of increasing the diameter of the tyres will be that your gearing will get a bit taller resulting into losing on acceleration and torque applicable on the ground but then again you will maybe gain on top speed and fuel economy when travelling at speed. The V8 is a quite torquey engine so I do not believe that you will have a big problem on pulling power and torque. But if it happens you can always either use a lower geared transfer box (there is a 1.667:1 geared variant) or fit a pair of CWP sets therefore restoring your gearing.

Take care Pantelis

Reply to
Pantelis Giamarellos

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