[Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.
"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained. [End quote]
So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of interest" to the police.
Richard Brookman uttered summat worrerz funny about:
I'm sure there are a few people of late on this news group who would welcome the unleashing of this technology. Nothing to fear here, though they may catch me sneaking home ten minutes early followed by a convoy of similarly minded bretheren.
I think you only become 'of interest' when you travel the same route as the BMW for some time. To follow up every single vehicle that the crims have passed on their journey would be nigh on impossible.
Of course, now they have made this info public, the crims will avoid travelling the same route back from a crime, and will all be running false plates!
The Police caught the scum that shot the Policewoman here in Bradford a month or so ago with ANPR, so i have no objections to things like this if they are proven to work for the intended use etc. My mate (an inspector) did tell me that's what the 'ring of steel' was setup for here in Bradford! Seems to work when it needs to.
The Police used to setup a ANPR trap outside our house, they used to catch all manner of tax dodgers, uninsured & just scummy type drivers, most got carted off for 'other' things as well!! It used to provide me some entertainment on a Sunday afternoon working on my fully legal & taxed cars!!
I agree to some extent but what if some scum bag put your plates on a similar car? After all that is the obvious thing to do.
It'll be your problem to prove that you wern't where the ANPR system says you were. Those with a family or hectic social lives might be in with a chance but how about the many single people living alone, who can't afford to socialise 24/7...?
...and Nige spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
I've heard that argument a lot lately. APNR is great technology, and if it catches a few bad 'uns then that will be a good thing. If you and I (and the rest of the chums here on the group, cos we're all good guys here) were operating it, I am sure it would be 100% acceptable. But the cost of implementing this across the UK will be huge, and can you really believe they will restrict its use to catching a few tax dodgers and the odd bank robber? We're on the verge of giving up a lot of our freedoms in the name of the War Against Terror (tm), and I'm not the only one who is deeply worried about the way things are going.
To put it simply, if it's used to catch criminals, than I'm fully behind it. If it's used to gather and keep lots of data about the population which could be later used to investigate "troublesome elements", then I'm pretty frightened. My money's on the latter.
If someone had told you in 1995 that in ten years' time the police (with the full backing of HMG) would arrest and prosecute and convict a lone woman for simply and peacefully reading out a list of names of dead soldiers near the Cenotaph, you would have said they were paranoid - this is Britain, matey, we don't do that kind of thing. Well, we do now.
I got a red light offence ticket for my RRC previous owner from Kent Police wanting me to give them his details, i rang them up & asked why they want ME to give them the details (I didnt own the car at the time) I told the snotty bitch on the phone there was no way i was giving them info they could easily find themselves. The cow then said they would pursue me. I was in Sheffield the day in question, in a Subaru WRX fixing a CCTV & fire alarm system. I told her to do as she wishes & I'll report her for wasting Police time if i even get so much as another letter.
Tossers like that make me puke. The bloke ran a red light, maybe not even knowing & they try it on with me???
She shut the f*ck right up when i told her i had CCTV dated & timed evidence & could provide any amount of witnesses.
Tell that to the chap on the tube train with 9 bullets in his head. If you become the object of suspicion due to official ineptness, then you'll have the problem of trying to free yourself from it, proving your innocense. Currently, if you are suspected of committing a crime that might have a computing element (e.g. hacking, financial, organised crime etc), the police will take all your computer equipment and, due to massive backlogs, will take months to look at it while you are in prison on remand. If they find a file that they can't decipher then if they think it's an encrypted file you'll be told to give the password or have your withholding the password used in evidence against you. If you don't have the password, it's assumed that you're lying and being obstructive.
Even with minor traffic offences, if they post you a NIP and the post office loses it, you get done as it's assumed that once they've sent it, then you've got it. This was a cost-cutting amendment added to the RTA a few years back after forces got bored with having to send NIPs via registered post and having to prove that the recipient received it. So they wrote an amendment that states that it's OK to assume you've got it even though they send it via second-class post to save pennies.
With the London Congestion Charge, if you know nothing about it and go into London, then realise that it exists and needs to be paid but you've just done a day's work and are now driving for four hours to get home, you'll find that the next day is too late to pay it and you now have to pay a fine or risk prosecution. This caught me out as I don't live in London and don't travel there much, but it's assumed that you know the rules despite that. There is an appeals process but you're limited to four tick-boxes that give accepted reasons, and none of them include "I don't live in London you bastards".
The more laws we have, the harder it is to be law-abiding. Most of this traffic camera shit is similar to the crap we have to put up with regarding green laning, laws that trap the law-abiding and not the criminals. Criminals will just copy plates from other cars and then if you're chosen as the donor, you'll be in the shit and have to hope that you can prove that you are innocent.
I read an article either on the beeb or the guardian website some time ago about a journo who got caught speeding and went to court, he was surprised that the only people waiting to be tried in the batch that he was in were all white middle-class males like him. The court officers told him that they were the only ones who they were able to catch up with as they were honest enough to reply truthfully to the demands of the police, and chasing up the liars wasn't worth the police time..
So what you have to fear is the misuse of the convenient and easily faked means of identification that the police are increasingly using to automatically process people in the search for people to arrest. Policing by computer relies on easy identification of "asset tags" and the assumtion that you are responsible for every move of that asset tag. If one of your asset tags is processed as being involved in a criminal act, you'll have to prove the computer wrong.
...and Ian Rawlings spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
Exactly. This is what you get when you manage by targets rather than common sense and letting the people who know the job get on with the job. And it's why, despite a record number of speeding fines and convictions, the death rate on UK roads is not falling. In effect, the honest and (otherwise) law-abiding motorists have contributed a wedge of cash to the Treasury, and the overall level of safety on our roads has not been affected. The really dangerous drivers are still out there.
Tell you what, I'll come round, and stand behind you all the time, just watching, when you go to bed. when you have a shit, when you eat, while you watch telly, when you drive, I'll be in the back seat, watching, and recording your every action.
But you're doing nothing, so don't worry. And I'll do it all your life, when you are at the ballot box, when you fill in your tax return. I'll be there just watching.
And I will be recording all your mobile phone calls - times, locations and numbers. I'll also be recording all your banking transactions (I will take a picture of you every time you withdraw cash) I will store all your text messages but just in case I'll keep an eye on all your Emails. Just to be completely safe I will record all international calls and filter them for key words overnight.
If the plates read "I am a crook, catch me". However if they're copies taken from an identical make/model of car in the same colour, not quite so much of a giveaway.
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