Timing Cover

Hi

How hard is it to replace the timing cover on an 87 RR V8?

I have removed everything except the oil pump.......

Is it just a case of removing the 9 bolts and swapping the covers??

Mark

Reply to
Mark Solesbury
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you have to remove pump bottom plate drop the pump gear then lift the dizzy

Reply to
bob brookes

On or around Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:26:28 +0100, "bob brookes" enlightened us thusly:

you only need the pump gear out if the replacement cover hasn't got a pump with it - the pump casing is part of the cover; a second-hand replacement might still have the pump in place, a new replacement may be supplied with a new pump... You do need to pull the distributor though, to get it off the timing gear on the camshaft.

You'll also need to fill the pump with vaseline - take the top cover off it, by undoing 6 small 12-point-head bolts (5/16" I think, but an 8mm fits), and fill all the gaps around the gears with vaseline; aim to have no visible gaps. If you don't do this, the chances are good that it won't prime. and you'll have no oil pressure.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Bull and tosh! Pump stays fitted, only bit that needs removing is dizzy! Badger. (V8 engine builder)

Reply to
Badger

as you say "tosh" how then are you going to vaseline the gears? a long straw and compressor???????????

Reply to
bob brookes

You dont.

Priming the oil pump can be done with a simple slotted bit of metal rod and a battery or electric drill whilst the dizzy is out. Beth

Reply to
Beth Clarke

Just what I was about to add, you beat me to it! Badger.

Reply to
Badger

how exactly??

Reply to
Mark Solesbury

What year did they change the oil pump??

Graeme

Reply to
Graeme

Yup, thats the way to do it. I've made up a couple of suitable rods over the years for my P6 and SD1 powered landies. Think I may have done that trick with Troc the RR too. It's very noticable when the oil system is up to pressure!

It was the warnings that it might not work if you dont do it properly that scared me. I like the 'whizz the oil pump' solution as you positively know it works.

Reply to
Beth Clarke

On or around Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:00:48 +0100, "Graeme" enlightened us thusly:

dunno, but there are 2 different oil pump drives off the distributor. Dunno what year they are either.

How do they drive the later oil pump then?

Reply to
Austin Shackles

In message , Beth Clarke writes

The learned tome of oil pump priming:

Everybody, note everybody I spoke to said that if using one of these priming tools on a V8, priming is completed as soon as there's plenty of load on the drill. So much in fact that some had even got their drills to smoke! I packed my new high-volume pump, fired up the drill and got next to no load ... Being the cautious type I repacked the pump - still got no load. Told Holly, the V8 guru at RPi, I wasn't getting oil pressure. "How do you know?" "There's no load on the drill." "So?" "But no load is no back pressure." I was given the look that Holly gives when he thinks you're talking twaddle. He said he'd only ever had one pump fail to prime. I should just pack the pump well and start the engine - leave the rocker covers off and "you'll see 'weepage' at the rockers - it doesn't have a lot of flow at the top end so you won't get covered. It'll be ok." One repacked pump, rocker covers off, battery connected. Ignition key in hand, cold sweat of doubt appeared so I bottled. I went to work and somebody offered me an oil pressure gauge! I slapped it on. Still overly cautious I got out the drill, spun the pump up and ... still no load. Glanced at the new gauge - oil pressure 40psi ... curious but satisfying. I had just spent three days smothered in vaseline and worrying about nothing. Most d-i-yers use a B&D that spins at 4-5000rpm (most service engineers will have a similarly high-speed air drill) but the oilways can't cope with the speed of flow generated so the whole lot overloads the drill. Mine doesn't run so stupidly fast and hadn't faltered - about

1400rpm is ideal for typical engine revs (pump runs at half engine speed) - 40psi is what is expected but will not necessarily present enough load to the drill operator to, as you put it, 'positively know it works' or even know it works at all!

The morals of this tale?

1) Shove it full of vaseline and trust the system. Turn it over with no plugs in until the oil pressure picks up nicely. 2) Don't believe what you're told unless they know what they're talking about, you know what you're talking about and you're all talking about exactly the same things! And 3) Don't doubt someone who knows his job and gives you 'one of those looks'!

Oh and very finally, always use an oil-pump cover gasket. A mate used instant gasket instead because he's the cheapskate king of tightwads. One seized oil-pump rapidly followed by sheared distributor drive later he purchased a gasket ... then proceeded to mig the drive back in place ...

Reply to
AndyG

My drill that I use runs at 700rpm and you definately feel the "kick" as the system primes. You can also see the pressure on a gauge that I have fitted at the same time. This is the best method by far, as you are ensuring that the oil has reached all the bearing surfaces under pressure before the engine turns and the oil is effectively squeezed out of the bearings as things rotate. Packing the pump undoubtedly works, but it's a compromise - just like the oil system's design, I feel! Had someone at rover thought of the priming tool and drill combination, you have to wonder if packing the pump would ever have come about. It's a bodge to get round a bad design in my opinion. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

When they went to the later cross-bolted blocks, 4.0 and 4.6litre. Introduction of P38 rangie? Having said that, there is a hybrid 3.9 non cross-bolted engine with the serpentine belted front end that has the later front cover and pump arrangement. Not sure exactly what model it was fitted to or year though.

Pre-SD1 and Post SD1.

It's inside the front timing cover with it's own pickup pipe to the sump, driven by a keyway on the crank. (Crank is slightly longer to accommodate it) Badger.

Reply to
Badger

In message , Badger writes

I think the pressure reading is the best - as I said the difference in loading on mine was not significant enough to make me confident.

I totally agree. I'd rather have things pre-primed but having said that, on an old engine that hasn't been stripped down there should be enough lubrication about to cope with the few slow-rev, low load turns it takes to re-prime the pump and vertical galleries without the engine firing. If I was rebuilding from new there should be enough new oil to lubricate it for ages ... I am particularly zealous with the can during rebuilds - if it's new, smother it!.

I'm not so sure - the height of the pump relative to the sump is the bad point that makes it unable to self-prime but put it any lower and you introduce substantial mechanical vunerability. For the 'hardly ever' occurrence of needing to prime the pump, packing it is a pretty simple task.

Reply to
AndyG

I've never packed the pump with vaseline. The first time I whizzed the pump it was indeed with my dad's old B&D single speed electric drill. And yes, it nearly stalled it. These days I use a battery drill. More controlled and I can still tell when it's up to pressure if I haven't got a gauge or indicator of some sort.

I have tho dropped a little oil into the pump (apart from on assembly) by disconecting a remote filter hose and pouring some in. In the hope it'll find its way up into the pump enough to be useful. Seems to have worked.

Hmmmm. I prefer Real Steel.

Yeah, but if you hadn't checked it but started it and the pump didn't prime....you'd be kicking yourself for longer than 3 days.

..or until you need to go back to the man at the shop and ask for more bearing shells.

Beth

Reply to
Beth Clarke

On or around Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:01:42 +0100, "Badger" enlightened us thusly:

about '76 then.

ah... not seen one of them.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around 16 Sep 2003 08:45:47 +0100, Beth Clarke enlightened us thusly:

p'raps I'm lucky, not had the vaseline fail to do its stuff.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around 16 Sep 2003 22:52:54 +0100, Beth Clarke enlightened us thusly:

yeah, but if you turn it on the starter with the plugs out, it should get enough pressure when cold to switch the oil pressure light off, even without a gauge. and if it does that, you know it's primed.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

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