Using BioDiesel in a TD5

My handbook for my Td5 specifically says the engine will not run on bio-diesel and that the warranty may be invalidated if one tries.

HTH

On or around Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:17:21 +0000, Llandrovers enlightened us thusly:

bit naff of them. It may be that they're arse-covering for when the chip-oil brigade get at 'em.

proper bio-diesel, sold at the pump, I would expect to have similar mechanical and chemical properties to mineral diesel, and to perform in the same engines. Contrariwise, I'd expect manufacturers to take account of it in designing modern fuel systems, too.

Not actually seen any genuine biodiesel for sale as yet mind. Bioblend, which is a mixture, can be as little as 5% bio-sourced.

don't believe a word you hear out of landrover. as Austin stated, they will simply be covering their ass and protecting themselves against the wrath of the petrol companies. your best option would be to email someone at Alternative Technologies Australia,

or email snipped-for-privacy@ata.org.au they know exactly what is going on and will be able to tell you everything you want to know.

just another thing, where in oz do you live. i'm in melbourne, wondering if this petrol station is also in melbourne??

would be good to get on the environmental bandwagon, do something productive rather than just whingeing all the time like a lot of "greenies" i know. personally, i'll probably be heading down the ethonal path.

hope ata is of some benefit to you.

cheers.

sam

Are you sure it is a 100% bio, I thought they add a small percentage of rape seed oil or similar to mineral diesel.

I have heard thought that it can cause problems and LR does not like it.

Pieter

Of course, Australia is quite a small place, so there's a good chance you live next to each other :)

D

Could be it does'nt lube the injection pump like pukka diesel , maybe add a squirt of Millers Diesel additive to provide the lube ??? Begs question what about low sulphur fuel ? I have heard that the pumps can fail early because of low sulphur diesel.

I gather it's used a lot on German waterways. Claims I've seen in the farming press are that it makes no difference to engines.

Maybe, a bit like unleaded petrol, sustained use is the problem.

Biodiesel is usually transesterised rape seed oil, and will run fine in older models that use an injector pump (200/300tdi's) the TD5 has a computerised engine management system and I am informed by people who have tried it that the two don't get on very well, because veggie oils are often thicker than mineral oils it doesn't inject enough fuel and runs sick. You may be able to get away with mixing a ratio of Bio and mineral, and it would probably work fine. I have been doing some research and testing on this in my 200tdi for nearly

12 months and the results are promising. And yes I am a registered fuel producer and pay the duty. If I could afford a TD5 I would happily try it, but don't blame me if things go wrong. hope this helps John knights

I'm flying over in late January, so I'll probably bump into them both!

While you're here guys, any recommendations for a bit of off-roading on the west side of Melbourne? It would have to be somewhere I could hire a vehicle of course, as unfortunately my old Dad has a Subaru, and quite a shiny one at that.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

In response to some questions asked, I am in Adelaide. The fuel is sold by a small group service stations run by SAFF (South Auastralian Farmers Federation) They have fairly comprehensive informatation brochures on the product which I have not got hold of at this stage. I will pick them up next time and put them up on the web and post a link here. A lot of Canola is grown in this state. Rape seed is the same as Canola - they changed the name to make the product seem more attractive - people probably would not buy Rape Margarine but Canola Margarine is a popular supermarket line. The fuel is 100% bio, remembering ethanol is organically derived - in this case I believe it is from cane sugar as there is a massive over production of the stuff in the north of this country. ( I believe Europe is awash with sugar as well) I don't think there will be any problems with viscosity, that's why the ethanol is added. I also believe a small amount of sodium hydroxide is used in the process but whether this remains in the finished product - I don't know.

With regards to low sulphur diesel, I understand they don't actually remove the sulphur but add some enzyme type chemical which neutralises the suphur, and it is this chemical which causes a break down in the rubber seals of older fuel systems. The new seals are resistant to this chemical. Steve W

The concern with ULS is lubrication rather than damaging seals - and a marked dropin power in the early days.

Richard

few people seem to have the wrong idea about biodiesel. while it is produced from vegetable oil, the end result is quite different. goes through the process of trans-estrification i believe it is, and the end result is a much thinner liguid than the orignial oil. my sources have all said that bio-diesel is in fact a very good solvent. many people who switch initially find themselves with blocked fuel-lines because the collected crud in the fual-lines gets washed out and blocks parts of the line. while this is bad in the short-term, it is very good in the long term as all the fuel components including the injector pump will be a lot cleaner. no carbon build-ups within chambers either.

i would agree with docmartin, in that you would be wise staying away from computerised injection systems as the different fuel may screw up all the sensors causing the engine to have a bit of a fit.

the best site i have found is

details all that is needed to now about bio-diesel, and the other option you could take which is a dual-fual system running off raw vegetable oil, however i believe this is really only an option for old, large capacity, "traditional" diesels.

yeah, i know almost everyone in australia, so i probably will meet up with you sometime Tim. reccomendations for offroading?? just drive and see where you end up. you'll no doubt find somewhere very nice.

cheers fellas.

On or around Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:53:24 +1100, "samuel mcgregor" enlightened us thusly:

but there are a bunch of people running diesels on used chip oil. Which is not biodiesel, nor is not what the OP was asking about, but it's undoubtedly why LR have got the arse-covering thing in the warranty or wherever it was.

Hi Tim,

My name is Simon Mills an ex pat."Pommy" from Swindon.

I live in Melton 30kms west of Melbourne .If you email me the dates you are here I'm sure I could arrange a bit of off-roading.We have the Wombat State Forest 30 mins away.There is of course many many other place within a few hours drive from here.

Let me know if you are interested.

I may be a little off in the detail, but I understanding that converting the vegetable oil to biodiesel produces glycerine as a by-product. This is what causes the problem with the straight vegetable oil. I know that there is a company in East Anglie (somewhere in Norfolk?) which is processing waste vegetable oil, and biodiesel has been trialled in urban buses. But, despite the EU allowing various tax concessions to compensate for the higher production cost, the UK government has been reluctant to take advantage of such options, and most biodiesel used in the UK has been imported.

Strewth. Melton is where I'm going!

My Dad used to live on the big development behind the Coles / Safeway place. Six years or so ago he moved to the other end. He's on Cameron Court, 3337.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

correct, glycerine is a by-product of the biodiesel process. however i am not sure wether that is the problem with straight oil. i think the problem with straight oil is it's viscocity. if you want to run a diesel off straight oil you generally have to include a fuel heater in the fuel-line so as to get the oil to the reccomended 70-80 degrees c. otherwise the oil will begin to congeal on injectors etc. generally people running off oil have dual-fuel systems. begin off standard petro-diesel then switch to oil once the fuel-heater is hot enough. then switch back to petro-diesel at the end to flush the oil out.

quite pathetic really, how inactive our government has been in terms of promoting the stuff. it is a win-win situation on all accounts. need to get their bloody act together!

There a few companies making biodiesel in the uk i think. Theres one near me too

in Cheshire). I'd buystuff from them if i could, but its 1000litres minimum which isntreally practical!.

The government not giving any of the tax breaks to biodiesel seems typical. They introduce lots of stupid EU things, yet ignore the good ones! (oh no its good for the environment and they might loose money...)