CEO: Toyota vehicles lacked passion, must be more exciting

By that logic, why isn't doesn't Infinity have the same customer satisfaction ranking as Lexus? Obviously, there are other factors at play here.

Dealer experience is one of many factors. IMO, dealer experience is less important than the following:

- Reliability - Don't underestimate the anger and frustration people experience wasting time in a repair shop after spending many thousands of their hard earned dollars for a product. This includes "free" warrantee service.

- Design/Ergonomics - The product must work as intended, meet or exceed the customer's expectations and occasionally make them smile and in awe. It's important to note that, while you may have ambitions to be a race car driver, the average consumers defines the "driving experience" very differently than you do.

Car magazine road tests are good for data (e.g., handling, braking, noise level, etc.), but their opinions and rankings are far less useful because they are based on the priorities of the authors, which tend to be way more "hot rodish" than the average consumer.

Your priorities are different than mine. Nonetheless, my perfect car doesn't exist, either. So we have to choose amongst the options that the market offers.

Reply to
David Z
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I would expect Buick owners to over-report reliability compared to anyone.

That's because Buick owners buy their cars then store them in the garage.

Until and unless the "ownership reliability survey" is normalized for miles driven, age group, and use of the vehicle (kids, hauling, traveling salesman, taxi/courier, etc.), then it's just so much garbage.

And that's proven by Buick's consistent top ranking. There is no way the Buick, which is identical to the Chevy and is made by the same company and built in the same factories by the same union workers that are managed by the same GM management, is overall any better or more reliable than the identical Chevy model.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

In message , C. E. White writes

In this months Which survey the order from most to least reliable is, Very Good,

Honda. Daihatsu. Toyota. Mazda. Suzuki. Good, Mitsubishi. Hyundai. Subaru. Porsche.

Average,

Mini. Nissan. Mercedes-Benz. Skoda. Ford. BMW. Chevrolet. Kia. Volvo. Jaguar. Seat. Daewoo. Proton.

Poor,

Volkswagen. Vauxhall. Smart. Citroen. Audi. Jeep.

Very Poor,

Peugeot. Saab. Fiat. MG. Alfa Romeo. Chrysler. Rover. Renault. Land Rover.

Reply to
Clive

In message , Clive writes

Reply to
Clive

GM must have really done a number on SAAB. The one I had back in the early 80's was a great car.

Reply to
hls

You know, even if NOTHING else were stupid about that list, the fact that Mitsubishi is in the "very good" category would render the whole thing suspect.

Reply to
Steve

Compare that to the many thousands of owners who were stranded because VW didn't have enough supply on hand to take care of the issue.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

...and regular wheel bearing replacement, and regular electrical problems, and...

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

That reminds one of Toyotas unsettled sludge problem LOL

Reply to
Mike

But in reality, Mitsu is about as low on the list as you can get. I mean, even Yugo figured out how to keep the majority of the oil out of the combustion chambers.

Reply to
Steve

Or all the Honda drivers that got stranded by their very similar ignitor issue (not enough parts on hand, backorders, etc.) in the mid 90s. I had to rescue one of those drivers once. She didn't seem amused that an (at the time) unpainted '69 Dodge with rust holes and a swiss cheese convertible top was purring like a kitten (ok, tiger cub) and her almpst-new honda was a useless pile beside a rural backroad.

Every manufacturer has > That reminds one of Toyotas unsettled sludge problem LOL

Reply to
Steve

I was an industrial mechanic for a while in the late '80s (forklifts and such). Mitsu was shit then. *New* liftrucks (under 1000 hrs) would drop valveguides or leak so much oil as to render them useless in a week of service.

I worked for a Datsun dealer. We replaced hundreds of Mitsus.

Try leaking oil in a carpet warehouse! They go nuts! "Fix this F**king thing before it ruins the inventory!"

Sorry... No Fix... Buy a better forklift...

True story. Al

Reply to
Anumber1

Heh. Did they use the same heads as the V-6 POS engines they put in Chrysler minivans?

I mean really. How hard is it to spec a proper press fit...?

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Yep. Same industrial process creating totally shitty parts that the company (Mitsui) could care less about servicing/replacing/honoring warranty service about.

Sold a lot of Datsuns/Nissans due to it.

Strange thing is that a 1st gen, turbo, AWD Eclipse is a f**king blast to drive and held up well. Al

Reply to
Anumber1

Agreed. A friend had a non-turbo FWD Laser and it seemed to be decent enough. I expected it to self destruct at any second just because I knew who'd made it but she had it for years. I guess their anti-engineers must have had an off day when designing that series of cars?

Girlie keeps looking at WRXes and Evos... I told her if she bought an Evo that I would refuse to so much as put new wiper blades on it, because I didn't want to be held responsible for anything bad that could (would) happen to it.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Mazda MX5 3rd Generation. Also called the Eunos or Miata in earlier generations in different markets. Don't know if they still are.

Purebred small engined two seater open top sports car.

Reply to
Elder

They really have. They don't feel as good, and don't last as well.

Hopefully if and when it is finalised and publicised, the Koenigsegg buyout will give back the sensible eccentricities and longevity.

Reply to
Elder

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