When you complain that a 210-hp mid-size sedan is underpowered, it really makes one wonder just what your standard of excellence is. In fact, the level of power in today's FWD sedans is approaching the point where all the power does is generate wheelspin - because of weight transfer, it is impossible to put more power down to the ground.
You've got a legitimate gripe about the hesitation - you're making WAY too big a deal out of it, but it is a legitimate gripe. But you're spinning off into the ozone to start calling the car "weak under the hood" and "underpowered."
Not sure I made "WAY too big a deal out of it". If merely responding to discussion on the topic is making a big deal out of it, then what do you suggest I do differently? My original post, go back and read it to refresh your memory, was just asking new ES330 owners if they noticed any improvement over the ES300. The "weak under the hood" and "underpowered" were paraphrased from auto reviews I had read of the 2002 ES300. The poor shifting characteristics and hesitation yield a perception of weakness, even though the raw engine is really quite capable. In my specific case, the ES300 caused a dangerous situation a couple of times on the interstate. It's not always bad, most of the time it performs well. It's the inconsistency that I have the concern with. On grades, I am left to make a choice of decellerating or having the engine whine then jerk down a gear. There is no in-between. Funny, isn't it, that Lexus' press release and literature on the ES330 make specific mention of improved grade handling characteristics? They also make it very clear in all their advertisement that the ES330 has power improvements over the ES300. So, if you think the ES300 had enough power, give Lexus a call and tell them they wated their time making the ES330. I mean, I don't mind reading criticism about my opinion of the ES300 being "underpowered", but it seems Lexus knew it long before I came to that conclusion, so I'm not really the one to direct questions to on that point.
I appreciate that everyone here has an opinion to suit their own circumstances and agendas, and there was certainly some interesting and thoughtful input, but most of the authors in this thread did not represent the audience I was looking for. Basically, if you haven't driven both an ES300 and ES330, or if you don't have some sort of firsthand intimate product knowledge with those vehicles, then your input is not terribly helpful here. For those who have that background and provided input, thank you for your feedback. For those who don't believe the ES300 has a problem, that's certainly your right, but you may want to call Lexus and let them know that they just wasted a year's worth of engineering time developing the new computer firmware to fix the transmission performance issues.
"markjen" wrote in message news:nvKcb.339335$ snipped-for-privacy@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Steve, does your position indicate that any improvements in a vehicle are a defacto admission that the old vehicle is defective? That's really the crux of your whole argument - that the existence of an improved ES330 (with more power and less hesitation) means the ES300 had a major defect (not enough power and too much hesitation).
Just exactly how is a mfg supposed to make improvements in a vehicle if every improvement indicates that the current vehicle is defective?
The ES300 is not a perfect car. Lexus improved it. Get over it.
Again, I have no issue with your judgment that the ES300 has a problem. But this conspiracy theory you have that the ES330 proves the ES300 is defective is just loopy.
Lexus corporate customer service told me they have had numerous customer complaints about the transmission, which led to to look at making a modification. Further, the new programming is going into the ES330.
That's a creative misinterpretation of my position, but the above answers that point.
Your interpretation, not mine. Sometimes people have a difficult time following context. It's not your fault, I'm sure you're doing the best you can. There is, in fact, a difference between an improvement and a fix.
Again, I think you may be a bit slow. I'll type large, make sure you read it slow so you get it this time. I WAS ONLY ASKING FOR ES330 DRIVERS' OPINIONS OF THE ES330 COMPARED WITH THE ES300. THERE IS A KNOWN TRANSMISSION ISSUE WITH THE ES300 THAT HAS RESULTED IN MANY CUSTOMER COMPLAINTS TO LEXUS.
Hmmm, by that logic, I guess we should also put an end to all product liability laws and judgements. Let's also make all the Ford Explorer owners reimburse Ford and Firestone for their tires. Hmmm, Firestone fixed the tires, I guess it's just tough sh*t for the owners because they got an older version of the Wilderness tires, they need to just get over it and buy something else. Too bad for them. Seems to me also that Ford and Firestone would have never admitted there was a problem with their product if they weren't forced to. Further, it's a Lexus. I would expect this from Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, GMC, or Buick, not from Lexus.
This really was the crux of my whole argument. Read my original post a couple of times, it may sink in.
Yes, context is the crux of our argument. You continue to make a mountain out of a molehill, by comparing a bit of engine/tranny hesitation to a major tire safety defect. One is some individuals carping that their cars aren't as responsive as they think they should be, the other is a major safety issue in which people have been killed. That lack of context for the severity of the ES issue is what I'm driving at.
Let's let this go. Good luck getting your car to perform to your satisfaction.
My vehicle has behaved in an unsafe manner. I would caution you not to characterize a large number of legitimate customer complaints about the performance of the ES300 transmission as "carping". Would Lexus spend all the time and money producing a new transmission firmware just to quiet a little isolated "carping"? With a wee bit of knowledge about how large corporations make decisions, I can say there is no way Lexus would have taken these steps for a little annoyance from a few carping crybabies. You may choose to acknowledge that it could be a combination of driving conditions, driver habits, and adaptive computer behavior that lead to this type of transmission anomaly, which would explain why not everybody experiences it. And just because you haven't experienced a problem with your vehicle doesn't mean it is working properly for everybody. There clearly were enough complaints to cause Lexus to spend the time and money to rework it. At the end of the day, that serves as the bottom line.
Don't waste time responding to these people who believe that the transmission problem is overstated. It seems that most of them do not even own the ES300. I do (brand new bought in Sept.) and agree 100% with your complaint. This transmission problem is a MAJOR safety problem.
The car COMPLETELY fails to respond within 3-5 seconds to a complete depression of the accelerator pedal while traveling between 20-50 mph. Anybody who owns an ES300 and who has not experienced this problem probably does not drive in major cities with short merge ramps.
I really could see how an accident could occur because of this problem. I used to have an Accord EX-V6, which had a similar problem, but there the lag was only about 2 seconds at the most. Then it would react. Annoying indeed, but the lag on the ES300, is simply unacceptable. SHAME ON LEXUS. I can't believe they released the car with such performance. It's kind of like Microsoft's 1.0 products.
In the meantime, I have taken to manually downshifting into 3rd or 4th gear when I need to accelerate quickly. I have no idea what this is doing to the transmission, but it's better than getting rear-ended by someone who assumes that just because I have a Lexus, it actually performs like a $30K+ car.
The luxury features are great and the ride is wonderful, but this transmission is just an embarrassment.
You press the accelerator to the floor and count one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two, one-thousand-three, one-thousand-four, one-thousand five and the car fails to accelerate in this time? If this is correct--and not a gross exaggeration as I suspect--then I agree that this is unacceptable, but is also an indication of something faulty in your particular car. No dealer would consider this normal behaviour in this model.
No. Would you if someone told you that they press the gas pedal to the floor on a new ES300 and it takes a full five seconds for the car to accelerate? You guys have issues, but as I said before, you're making WAY too big a deal out of them. This poster's gross exaggeration is just another example.
I'm not sure that we're the ones with the issues. There's something going on that's making you so defensive. Honestly, before it gets really bad, you might want to seek some counseling.
Steve, one good rule for internet discussions is never attack anyone pesonally. I'm sticking to it. I think we've exhausted this. Again, I hope you can get the problem solved. Good luck,
That seems a bit excessive. There are SOME customers who had some transmission issues based on their driving patterns. Mine has actually behaved a bit better since they reset my computer, in addition to my adjusted driving habits. I'm hoping the new program gives me taller gears and fixes the grade problem I have experienced. The other stuff I can deal with, I'll just not try any aggressive moves with it. It rides smooth and quietly, so I'll enjoy it for that.
You should really be a Ford or Chevy buyer. Your standards are way too low and your tolerance for mechanical ineptitude is quite inspiring. You're right in Detroit's sweetspot.
As for "issues", my lagtime estimate was no exaggeration, and until you take the es300 to the redline, your critiques/opinions are as useless as your respect for Lexus is high.
This is the exact same problem that the 2001 Volkswagen Passat with Tiptronic transmission has. I'm told that Audi put in a long downshift time delay for American drivers because of all the grief they got from the Audi
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