LS 460 Review

The Lexus LS 460:

A beautiful, well-engineered, and exquisitely built luxury car to which the joy of using is almost totally destroyed by horrible software.

"Software" you say in a car review?? Let me explain..

I used to judge a car simply by its build quality, ability to run well, provide road feedback while still providing comfort, and reliability at a reasonable cost. I believe the Lexus has all of this to a degree few vehicles can claim. The BMW 7 series may be more of a driver's car and the Mercedes S series may be more luxurious, but the Lexus met my personal needs quite well at a price point hard to ignore. But I drove all these vehicles more than once when shopping for my new Lexus and I believe they all qualify as "well-engineered and exquisitely built luxury cars".

When you think about it, all luxury cars represent the best the manufacturer has to offer so the preceding criteria should be reasonably well met. However, what can really distinguish a luxury car today are the added features that each manufacturer uses to claim bragging rights. In a Lexus LS 460, nothing proves that point better than the tag line "The car that parks itself". Likewise, this feature is a perfect example of how Lexus software disappoints the buyer.

I have tried to use the self parking feature for 6 months now and I must regretfully acknowledge that I have never so horribly wasted a thousand dollars. To explain all the steps required to 'Program' the vehicle to park itself would take more time than I am willing to take; but you can read all the pages required in the vehicle manual yourself to get the full picture. Anyone considering this option owes it to themselves to force the salesman to train you on how to use it to park the car in less than a minute. You will quickly see how long it takes to use and how foolish the whole concept is. If you lack the skills to park your car, how could you possibly master the steps to program the system to park the car for you? A $500+ inconvenience system.

But believe me, that small bit of software is far from my biggest gripe. I think I would have to classify the music software in the car as the single most frustrating aspect of the Lexus ownership experience. Now let me preface this by saying the sound quality of the Mark Levinson system is far and away the best I have ever heard in a vehicle. IMHO, there is no equal in the automotive industry. However, using the required software to listen to your music selection is far and away the most poorly designed I have ever had to tolerate. Again, let me explain...

The Mark Levinson audio system in the Lexus has a great variety of flexible media options. It allows radio, XM, CD's, DVD's, portable media player interface and mp3's (either CD's you can rip to the small hard drive or a CD you have burned). With all this flexibility one would think that the Lexus was the iPod of luxury vehicles. Imagine, thousands of your favorite songs at your fingertips while driving cross country! Nothing could be further from the truth. There are so many ways the interface software hobbles your use of the audio system I don't think I can even list them all, but I will detail the worst ones:

1.. Inability to play, import or create Playlists..duh? 2.. Inability to download to the Hard Drive (HD) any of your favorite mix CD's (courtesy of Digital Rights Management incorporated into the system) 3.. Most search and view options not available while driving - imagine a list of 200-300 artists, albums, whatever. Then, WHILE DRIVING, look for one of these by moving up or down the available list option 1 item at a time to find your selection. And you thought cell phones were distracting! 4.. Display of Folder names from CD's limited to 13-15 characters displayed in a font so large the driver of the car next to you could read it. 5.. Inability to play mp3's from DVD's 6.. Fairly long delay to read TOC from each mp3 CD in the 6 disc changer whenever you load it - does not retain TOC when you switch to another disc. 7.. CD/DVD's in changer not identified by Title or Volume Label; Simply labeled 1,2,3, etc. 8.. Labeling of ripped music to HD is from an old Gracenote database so forget labeling that newest CD you just bought. Must update database at the dealer. There has got to be a simpler way to update! 9.. Editing files names: No curser movement without deleting everything from end of line to edit point. 10.. XM Built in; no Sirius option; no HD Radio. Lexus should pay me for accepting this crap - I'm sure they get a kickback from XM. As an aside, I once had XM on a truck I own; cancelling the service took over a half hour of my time arguing with their representatives. Consequently, I refused to activate this radio or ever do business with XM again.

Imagine yourself on a multi-hour drive, knowing you have all your favorite music at your fingertips to keep you company, and not being able to get to it unless you pull the car over to the side of the road, stop and enable the Lexus search options. 1st solution was to carry a bunch of CD's. My solution now: bought a dedicated iPod Classic for use in the car. Now, remind me to kick myself in the ass for spending over $6,000 for this "Media System".

OK, you get my point about software. Let me briefly describe a few other software annoyances

  1. GPS Software

a. Similar menu restrictions as on the music system - I am just appalled at the lack of usability here.

b. Extremely limited routing flexibility, display and option selections - a $300 Garmin portable can do circles around this thing.

c. Route choices are simply obscure; often taking excessively long routes while ignoring direct paths - I cannot even figure out a pattern here. Frequently you can see a more direct route to your destination but the guidance ignores it?

  1. Telephone Directory - Similar menu restrictions as on the music system - I just continue to be appalled at the lack of usability here. As insane as this sounds, it is possible to pick up your cellphone, use the cellphone's directory to find your party, dial on your cellphone, then the Lexus will intercept your call and interface via Bluetooth. Can anyone explain that logic? (Just trying to demonstrate here how alternatives to using built-in menu's and screens are much less safe while driving; however, I am sure the Lexus legal group has assured Corporate that they can deny responsibility in case of an accident. I can't wait to see that one tested in court!)

  1. Voice Command? So limited and inaccurate even the salesman cringed at trying to demonstrate it. Not surprisingly, the huge instruction manuals rarely mention this feature. Again, part of the ,000 worth of inconvenience 'features' that simply don't work.

  2. Accessory ports all turn off when key is off - so forget charging you cell, ipod, portable GPS, etc during lunch.

Other comments:

a.. Bluetooth telephone interface works great and is seamless. b.. MPG is awesome! In town typically around 23-25 and on the highway low

30's! c.. Outstanding build quality - no flaws, issues or broken items after over 8,000 miles. d.. Lexus link a waste of $900. An excuse to sell you a subscription. Use the money to pay for your cellphone and a Garmin GPS. e.. Keys - If you have more than 1 car in your family, it is unlikely you will carry this large, fat key often (very inconvenient). So, I frequently find myself in the Lexus and my wife's key (which she keeps in her purse) actually operates the vehicle. Now if I let her out of the car to go into a store or something and I go park the car, I find I can't lock it as I don't have the key. A warning buzzer or something that the key is missing and car is running would be nice. Now, if you have multiple vehicles, key habits for this one is unique so you've just added another 'inconvenience' without any benefit (other than hype). f.. Trunk opener - So slow I find myself waiting impatiently for it to open almost every time I use it. Another inconvenience feature for $400. g.. Noisy as my truck at highway speeds; especially on a windy day. Forget about listening to classical music on the expressway.

Now, I am not bashing the car here. I do admit I am bashing the software on multiple aspects. That is my point. I love the style, finish, fit, build quality, power and many other aspects of this vehicle. But the software that operates so many of the 'extras' is just so bad it detracts significantly from what would be an otherwise outstanding vehicle. If you are considering a LS 460, I would take serious pause before I spent a dime on the GPS, parking or stereo. Actually, I would buy a bare bones LS460, save $10,000 and put in an aftermarket Audio/GPS system (if this is even possible?). It probably would not sound as good as the Mark Levinson, but the usability could not be any worse.

Every car must have a market, and it appears this car was designed for your grandmother. That is, a consumer who is clueless about technology, afraid to drive over 45 mph, and wants the car to prevent her from ever doing anything that might jeopardize her safety and security. (My apology to all the hip grandmothers out there who don't fit this paradigm.)

So, next time I shop for a new car, I will spend a couple of hours in each car determining exactly how each vehicle's software works. I suggest you carefully evaluate that as well before purchasing your next luxury vehicle. Learn from my mistake.

Reply to
DanO
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I have an '08 RX350. I can certainly relate to your complaints about the nav system, don't have the other add-ons you describe. The nav system on the Lexus is enough to make you tear your hair. For instance on a trip to Dallas from my home in Hurst (25 miles) the three options given me were all ridiculous - ignoring the freeway route direct to my destination, even tho I chose the freeway option. One was straight south for 7 miles, then the freeway from ft. worth to dallas. One was straight east for 5 miles, then south to the freeway mentioned above. The third was by back roads to the north of the direct route. Coming back from Dallas, it gave me three choices that again were outrageous, not giving one a chance to re-direct the routing to the straight through freeway. When I was in Nebraska some months ago, I programmed it to go from a business to my motel. It showed a route to Chicago. Surely they can come up with a better system.

Reply to
muzzy

Thank you for your thoughtfull and thorough reviews! This sort of information is why we come to these usegoups. My own history with Lexus covers three cars from Lexus over the years since 1993. I had always gone up in quality of cars purchased and when I got the first Lexus ES300 it was great! Then I moved to Mercedes and my wife stayed with another ES. After my second Mercedes, an S class, I moved back to a 2006 LS430 ultra. To keep it very short, I find the car sorely lacking. And the lack is in the engineering details that distinguish the true luxury car from the near luxury car. It would not be difficult for the Lexus engineers to sit and think how to make the "goodies" truly good! Regarding my car, I could go on for pages describing the minor changes that would vastly improve the car and end many great frustrations. On the other hand, certainly the dependability of the Lexus (ignore the radar, bumper sensors, and air suspensors) is vastly superior to the Mercedes. Adding it all up - the Lexus has many, many, many problems which prevent it from being considered a true Luxury car. And the amazing thing is that I have never been contacted by their vaunted QC system to get my opinion! This is a true shortcoming of such a system - ignoring the unhappy customer who can contribute many ideas for improvement. And I must warn DanO and Muzzy that you are likely to be rather strongly attacked by the "inhabitants" of this news group. Many of them take a negative view of the cars as a personal attack on them - perhaps they are employees of Lexus. Maybe we won't hear from them, but feel free to ignore them if we do. And again, thank you for your reports. I have had a few experiences with my own nav system which lead me to view it as being strongly capable of improvement, but I have no other experience to judge it against.

Reply to
mcbrue

As an addition to my report on the RX350 Nav system - that being said, I find the 350 an outstanding vehicle, the best I've owned (including several Cadillacs and a Jag. It's great in every way (except the Nav).

Reply to
muzzy

I don't doubt if there are Toyota employees in these groups against badmouthing people who realized Lexus really have nothing under the sheet metal.

I think mcbrue you are right, people who have owned true luxury cars, even mainstream ones like BMW and Mercedes, can *easily and quickly* tell that Lexus is really isn't a luxury car but a dolled up Toyota. That's all.

Reply to
johngdole

What I like about the Lexus is the nicely dolled up interior and the soft Buick-like ride. There isn't much personality to speak of, even with the LS. The RX's suspension is kinda like that of Jeep Cherokee type of harsh. Those who's been in a Jaguar or Range Rover would know what I mean.

But looking under the hood of BMWs and Mercedes I'm immediately impressed with the metallurgy, the precision welds in the aluminum alloy chassis, the strong paint that stands up to much flying debris. Also, controlling acceleration with continuously variable valve lift instead of throttle plate is a cool idea. So in terms of the relatively small amounts of technology you get from Lexus for the dollar, it's not worth the money IMO. Of course, your mileage may actually vary and I respect that.

I'd think BMWs and Mercedez,with their Bosch Motronic engine control system, are also heavily computerized. Even the number of flashes or the number of doors opened are menu selectable. But for me they are quite transparent and work very well.

Reply to
johngdole

Apparently, McBrew-jerk and Long Dong are both bald.

(wait for it...)

They just put their heads together and made an ass out of themselves.

(Man, I just crack myself up sometimes!) GIga

Reply to
GIga

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:51:56 -0400, "GIga" commented:

LOL...now cut that out! Yet again I have to clean off my keyboard!

Reply to
fourQ2

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