Mercedes Vs. Lexus

I would never buy a car from a company that makes the Dodge.

I see you're in Australia, so you probably don't see the American magazine, Consumer Reports. It just came out with it's ratings of reliability of various cars, as gathered from subscriber's surveys.

Most folks in the US (but not all) view these ratings of reliability as the best available.

In response to your post, I just looked through the new ratings, and the results are striking. Lexus is clearly on top in every relevant category, as is Toyota. Honda is just about as good-- the differences are likely not to be statistically significant.

Below is an article, cut a pasted from the Pittsburgh PA Post-Gazette in Pennsylvania, reporting on the results:

For the first time since it introduced the annual listing in 1997, all of Consumer Reports' Top Ten vehicles are Japanese-made.

The top picks are models that scored at or near the top in the magazine's testing program, have average or better predicted reliability , and performed adequately in overall crash protection as tested by the government or insurance industry.

Here are the top picks in each of the 10 categories: sedan, less than $20,000: Honda Civic 2; sedan, $20,000-$30,000: Honda Accord 3; sedan, $30,000-$40,000: Acura TL 4; luxury sedan: Infiniti M35 5; SUV, less than $30,000: Subaru Forester 6; SUV, more than $30,000: Toyota Highlander Hybrid 7; minivan: Honda Odyssey 8; pickup truck: Honda Ridgeline 9; green car: Toyota Prius 10; fun to drive: Subaru Impreza WRX / STi.

In a survey of Consumer Reports subscribers for predicted reliability, Chrysler and Mercury improved their showings. Mercury was the only American brand to crack the Top Ten, checking in at No. 8, while Chrysler moved up five places, to No. 15, out of 36 brands.

Lexus was named most reliable, followed by Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Acura, Scion, Mercury, Mazda and Suzuki.

In the meantime, Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge and other American brands languished in the lower rungs of the predicted reliability survey.

Predicted reliability rates for American brands have been about the same for the last two years: 17 problems per 100 vehicles in 2004 and

18 per 100 in 2005.

But the most unreliable brands in the survey were European, with an overall 21 problems per 100 vehicles.

The 10 lowest-rated brands were Audi, Infiniti, Saturn, Lincoln, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Hummer and Porsche.

It's just the Ford/Chevy argument at higher prices.

Rednecks will be rednecks. A closed mind is a closed mind, no matter what his paycheck says.

as an owner of both, I like my benz better, the lexus is a fine car if you just want to get from here to there but for people who really enjoy driving the benz is far superior

"sloppybeak" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...

When you start talking about cars in the league of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz, they are all extremely nice. Even though I personally own a Lexus brand product, I have a lot of respect for BMW and Mercedes-Benz both. I would be proud to drive a vehicle manufactured by any of these three. BMW and Mercedes-Benz traditionally have had better exterior styling and superb driving dynamics, while Lexus tends to concentrate intensely on initial build quality and downstream reliability. Good electronics are a high point for Lexus. I realize that a car's looks are subjective, but in my opinion, BMW and Mercedes-Benz both make some great-looking vehicles.

So, you're probably correct to some degree with your comments to your brother. And again, the interior and exterior styling is subjective. One man's treasure is another man's junk. ;-)

Ron M.

Me, I wouldn't buy a German car with YOUR money. (Been there, done that.)

And yes, I "get" German cars. German cars are the expensive, pouty, and high-maintenance mistresses of the road. Damn, they are a fine, fine ride...

....but then the maintenance and pouting kicks in.

At some point, without unlimited funds, you are at a decision point: continue the high-priced, high-maintenance fun, or go back home and enjoy your reliable Lexus wife of a car, patiently sitting there waiting for you to get over the midlife crisis.

Oh sure, she's not as sexy as the German car, and she doesn't handle at the edge like the German car. She's also not as fickle and high maintenance and pouty, and she agrees with you much more of the time. She's always there and never complains, and you come to realize there's more to life than a high-maintenance relationship with a pouty, high-maintenance woman--no matter how sexy she is or how fun the nights out with her can be. Because when she lets you down and demands more of you than you have to give, and treats you like dirt, you're standing there all alone outside the club, looking and feeling like an idiot.

Your Lexus wife would never, ever do that to you.

And the occasional fun night out isn't worth what you end up paying for it, both financially and in time wasted while you wait for the German car mistress to be in the mood to play.

Do this: start paying attention to cars with tail light and headlight problems. What brands of cars are you seeing? That's right--VW, M-B, and BMW. And pay attention to how old, or rather how new, those problem cars are.

The reality of electrical issues with German cars make Lucas electrics look reliable.

Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.

It's a small thing, but it represents the reality of the situation. You want to buy a German car? Just buy a GM car. At least the money you're throwing away stays more inside the country--and you get just as reliable a car.

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:24:26 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" graced this newsgroup with:

Holy shit. Every once in a while there comes on the Internet, a response that makes so much sense that it MUST of been posted by mistake.

This one's a keeper.

thanks.

Dear Dude,

You have spoken the truth. What's more, you've obviously lived the nightmare but can still tell the tale*.

Shag Nasty by name, cuddly soothsayer by nature.

My hero.

Absolutely. In my rough statistics, Audi (VW) scored highest in this category.

I'm in total agreement: if you don't mind the maintenance hassle/cost, go for German - you get the fun part of driving/ego too. Toyota/Lexus is your answer if you want to have a dependable car and don't mind having a bit lesser fun (than the over-priced German that is).

I have lived it. I came back, hat in hand, and begged forgiveness.

Maybe out of the category, but Volvo (you know, that "safe" car) has the absolute worst taillights and break light mechanisms. Worse than the old Ford Fiesta (hey, that was German, wasn't it?) and that's saysing a lot. I always wondered how a car can be safe when noboby else even knows when you're stepping on the brakes.

I work with a number of Attorneys, most of whom drive 'Benz's. All of them are on really good terms with the service department at the local 'Benz dealership. I was at one of their houses Saturday doing some computer work. He commented on my 01 GS-430, asked how I liked it and told me his tale of woe: In 2003 he bought his wife a new S430 Benz. He paid $81,000.00 for it and since:

1) It has spent an average of 31 days in the shop per year. Since this is less than 45 days per year, Mercedes says it doesn't qualify as a lemon and will do nothing about it. 2) It has his wife stranded a number of times. 3) After much negation, the only thing Mercedes would do was to extend his warranty to 5 years, 100,000 miles. The car now has 23,000 miles on it, Since it's left his wife stranded so many times, she refuses to drive it. I suggested making a flower planter out of it. I told him I paid a little more than 1/3 of the cost of his 'Benz for my Lexus, have had "0" problems with it. He didn't offer to trade me straight across, but he was thinking about it. Personally, I will stay with Lexus.

"sloppybeak" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...

$81,000.00 for Chevy Cavalier-level reliability it sounds like to me. It's stories such as yours that steered me into the Lexus camp.

I have a close friend that said he'd never purchase another Benz due to the vast amount of problems that he experienced with his. And this guy is very, VERY particular about maintaining his vehicles properly. So in his case the problems definitely were not due to neglect.

It would be really, *really* sad to drop that kind of money for a problematic vehicle; regardless of how wealthy a person may be. No matter how good a car looks inside or out, or how many features it has, if things don't work properly it can totally sour you on the manufacturer of the vehicle. Sometimes for life depending on how bad the problems are. That's how I feel about GM at the moment. I don't feel as though my opinion of them will change anytime soon.

Ron M.

Dear Guys,

I came into some money a couple of years ago and bought a CLK55, ML320 & A160 (there was a good reason for buying them, honest). They have all been a pile of total c**p. The time I've spent complaining and running around in circles trying to understand why, why, why.

It's only thanks to the liberating posting from Saint ShagNasty that I can now share my pain with you all. I got rid of the A160 and got a Honda Jazz. No visits to the garage, no pain. Great economy, great ride. Simple. Comfortable.

I have to say that the MB dealership I bought from are really good; they fix the faults no worries. But they just don't get it; I don't want another box of boiled sweets, trip to the garage, conversation on the phone. I just want the car to work.

Hell no, I can't share the pain; you don't deserve it.

I was talking to one of the guys I work with, he was saying that the primary reason not to buy a Lexus was the fact that there is no Lexus dealer locally. He said he wouldn't know what to do without the 'Benz dealership here. I didn't think about it at the time, but if the car is reliable, what do you need the dealer for? Our local Toyota dealership has a certified Lexus tech and they have all the tools. The only time I needed a dealer was when getting new keys programmed for the car. My Lexus has been so reliable, I have not needed any service, except for oil changes.

VERY well said . -Dana

I own an SLK320. Prior to the SLK, I owned a TT FWD. Never had any problems with either the TT Audi (also, my wife has had a problem-free A4 since 2001) or the Mercedes Benz. Both were great cars. Drove a few sc430s the past couple of weeks because I need to (sadly) get rid of my MB because it is a 6 speed and I've been having problems with my knee (on and off for the past 2 years....to the point of one round of physical therapy). Was very impressed with both the look and the quality of the sc430......very plush and a very smooth ride. However what I don't like about the sc430 is that while it looks sporty, it is far from it. I found the ride very smooth but very boring....what one would expect from a sedan vs. a sports car. Nothing wrong with the feel of the car....for what it is, Lexus has done an exceptional job...great quality and build, maybe as good as it gets for that type of car (beating the SL500). However, I think the car a beautiful snooze.....if you like to drive and like a performance vehicle, the Lexus sc430 is not for you. Myself? Went with the TT V6 with the new DSG tranny...incredibly sporty, great Bose stereo (better punch to it than the ML system IMHO) and has AWD. Loved the feel of the Boxster....but then it gets down to what car you can trust.....Lexus is at the top of the list IMHO....Audi is exceptional (though the electricl system can be tempermental....or so I've been told) and the MB less reliable than the Audi.

So.....I agree....the Lexus is more reliable and comfortable. HOWEVER, to say the Mercedes is "overpriced unreleaible overengineered machines" is bullshit IMHO. I think them pretty reliable and see where friends who own them feel the same way. Most important, if you like to drive....the Lexus is boring.

"sloppybeak" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...

"210> View this thread: 4655>

That's the frustrating part of owning a Lexus. Their quality is second to none, but nobody in their wildest imagination would call any of them sporty. My description of the SC430 is that owning one will make you the sexiest guy in the retirement home.

The original IS was a good attempt at making a sporty sedan, even if it was a bit rough around the edges. Unfortunately, even that bastion of performance car testing, Consumer Reports, just said in their April issue that the new IS250/350 can't by any stretch be called sporty either.

So it looks like Toyota is giving up on its only feeble attempt to build a sporty car, and is slipping back into what it does best-- building reliable and luxurious, but boring, old men's cars. I have a

4 year old manual shift IS300, and I guess I'll hang onto it until the next generation, and hope that somehow Lexus comes back to sportiness. If I had to buy a new car today, I suspect I'd get a 3-series BMW (even though I think the new styling is totally stupid), and hope that it doesn't act like a typical German car and spend 100 days a year in the shop.

Any car, even a GM, should be fine for a couple of years--and you haven't owned these cars for more than a couple of years before you got rid of them.

That's what the carmakers are carefully crafting their cars for: the two to three year lease period. The accountants are very carefully defining the parts that will fail not within the warranty/lease period but which are not designed to go much past that. It keeps their costs down, which keeps their profits up.

The cost of fixing this issue, then, goes to the guy who buys it used.