Push button car starter

In the past few years, push button car starter appear to arrive in some car models. The Lexus GS 430, and the new IS350 has one of those. Mercedes Benz shows their new cars using a key fob. So does the new Infiniti M series. Are both technologies the same? Who (which car company) started the push button car starter, and when did it start? Is push button starter something new in the commercial car industry? Had some of the old cars in the 1960s those push button starter too? I knew that some old american car has push button automatic transmission, I cannot remember the brand. Thanks for info.

Reply to
aniramca
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Push-button starters aren't new. Companies like Lincoln, Packard, Hudson and Cadillac used them from the 1930's to the 1950's. In fact, the idea of having an ignition "key" wasn't around from the very beginning - most cars prior to the 30's probably used push-button starters. I think most companies quit using them by the 1950's, though.

As for new cars, they've only been using push-button starters for the last few years. The Honda S2000 has used one since 2000, and I can't remember if there were any mass-produced cars that used a push-button starter in the 1990's.

Also, there are two types of "push-button starters". The one in the Honda, for example, behaves just like a regular ignition switch. You have to press and hold the button until the engine starts. Other cars, like the Aston Martin, only require that you press the button briefly. After that, a computer takes over and continues to turn the starter until the engine is running.

As for push-button transmissions, plenty of American cars had those well into the 1960's. The most-recent one I can think of off the top of my head was a friend's 1964 or 1966 Corvair.

Reply to
Scott Gardner

1912 Cadillac. 93 years ago.
Reply to
=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul

The early, mid-30's, Fords had a push button. They also had a key that mainly just pulled a steel pin from the steering column that acted as a steering lock.

My 1968 Porsche was a German delivery car that was "illegal" in California in several ways. One was the fact it had a stearing shaft lock that operated via a relay and not actuated by the key.

The push button primarily sent current to the starter relay. In those early day s of 6v systems the starter drew upwards of 100 amps and needed a hefty relay. Today with 12v systems the current is cut to 50 amps and many semiconductors can handle that current. In fact they are currently being advertised to handle up to 5,000 amps.

I have no idea what MB uses, probably the latest technology.

Reply to
Don.

Traditionally, the ignition switch and starter switch were separate. The modern, four-position (acc/off/ign/start) key switch was introduced as a "feature" in the early to mid-1950's, to save drivers from the horrible inconvenience of having to turn on a key AND push a button or a momentary toggle :)

I think on modern cars the pushbutton is there simply to give the interior of the car a "racy" feel; most race cars use standard toggle switches and pushbuttons for the electrical switches as reliability and serviceability are more important there than aesthetics, and most race drivers don't seem to be inconvenienced by having different switches. Thus to give a street car a "race car" aura, the designers use a more expensive, stylized version of the standard starter pushbutton. Eh, makes no sense to me, but whatever.

Incidentally, prior to most cars adopting key-start, aside from a dash-mounted pushbutton or momentary toggle, there were also switches mounted under the floor and activated by buttons looking a lot like a floor mounted dimmer switch. I know Studebaker and possibly others used to mount it underneath the clutch pedal, and I think Buick had it under the accelerator?

Finally, regarding another poster's comment about high current, I'm not aware of any vehicle made in the last 50 years that didn't have a starter solenoid; I doubt any more than 20A is flowing through the "start" contacts on the ignition switch or starter button. However, in very, very old vehicles, you'd sometimes see on top of the starter where you'd expect there to be a solenoid, instead a very heavy duty switch. For example, I was working on a '50 Studebaker Commander a while back; the starter was on the driver's side of the engine and had one of these HD switches on top of it, it was activated by a pull rod that hung under the dashboard next to the OD handle. Obviously a clutch/neutral safety interlock is impossible with this setup which may be one reason why it's dropped out of favor and solenoids became the way to go. I think that car had a manual choke as well, IIRC. Three things you never see anymore :)

nate

Reply to
N8N

My 51 Crosley had one. My 53MG-TD had a "pull knob" starter- same thing but reversed motion :-)

Reply to
Don Stauffer

Citroen 2CV and Diane also had pushbutton starters.

And some older Fiats (600, 126, probably 500) had a starter cable connected to a lever on the floor. You pulled the lever which, via the cable, pulled the cog into the flywheel and an electric switch in the starter itself turned on electricity for the starter.

My ex-girlfriend's mother, then around 60 years old, used to drive a 1965 Fiat 600 with such a system (and front-opening doors). She always enjoyed embarrasing any cocky mechanic by waiting a bit and letting them puzzle over why the damn engine wouldn't start, when she had clearly driven to the garage, before letting them know this. To make things more interesting the original steering lock (three positions: off, utilities, contact) had broken and had been replaced by a regular lock (four positions: off, utilities, contact and spring-loaded start).

Reply to
Jan Kalin

Your memory is faulty. No Corvair ever had a pushbutton transmission.

Pushbutton-operated automatic transmissions were found in 1956-1964 Chrysler products (cars and trucks, with a very few exceptions in 1964 in the form of one or two special-sport models that used a floor-mounted lever shift). The Chrysler system was mechanical (two cables) and quite reliable.

Ford futzed around with an electrically-operated pushbutton gear selection system on Edsels for a few years. It was an unreliable nightmare and went over about as well as the rest of the car.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Thanks for the correction. I must have been remembering the dash-mounted shift lever on his Corvair. Now I have to sit here and rack my brain trying to remember which friends' car it was that had the honest-to-goodness pushbutton shifter.

Reply to
Scott Gardner

*rack your brain*?

put pushbutton transmission into Google Web and you find out it was a Mopar design, last year on the 1964 Chrysler Imperial.

Duh?

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

Reply to
old man

I believe most of the push button starters you are seeing on Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Infinitis, and BMW's now are because they have 'keyless' ignitions. (radio fob in pocket identifies to system that this is valid operator). If you don't have a key, you need a way to tell the car to 'start'. Although they may be 'sportier', I think the real answer is more practical.

I also recall push button starters. My first car, a TR-3, had one, Then I believe, as an earlier respondent suggested, a separate switch to hndle the high current of the starter motor was probably cheaper than a more complex and higher current ignition switch.

Reply to
Xplant

I'd forgotten how the TR-3 starter worked, been too many years. ;-) The reason I came up with the high current figures was because at one time I had a '68 Porsche that was giving me some intermittent starting problems. I finally pulled the starter solenoid off and the contact *strap* (1/8" thick x 1"x3") was badly burned. That caused me to investigate just how much current the starter was pulling...about 20 amps for a 12V system. The 50 amp value was hearsay but logical for a 6V system? :-\

OT: I went to a Porsche dealer and asked for a new solenoid. "Ve do not sell integral parts at Porsche! You need a new starter assembly, that will be $200 please."

A customer standing nearby came over to me and said, "Try a VW shop, the 912 starter is used in The Thing". I did and was able to also buy brushes for a dollar or two.

I had a friend that had worked at Ford in the 40's who received an award for a suggestion on extending the reducing wear of the old carbon brushes. Soak them in 30 weight oil overnight. We used that technique on a 100 point commutator that were were having trouble with at Northrup and extended their life by a factor of 4.

I know that's OT but maybe someone here is still using some of the old brush type generators.

Xplant wrote:

Reply to
Don.

I would say closer to accurate would be 200 and 500 amps. I have measured the current on my '62 Lark and it's about 200A, and my '55 (with a '63 motor) is higher. I don't know why they're diffferent, as the engines are mostly similar (same displacement and compression, minor differences in oiling system and block casting) maybe the '55 is higher because it's an automatic? 20A sounds about right for the standard Ford-style solenoid coil, although my regular Fluke meter doesn't read current over 10A so I don't have any way of verifying that (measured starter current with an inductive meter that sits on the battery cable)

Yeah, I've been through that before...

Unfortunately the old school VW shop that can hook you up like that is also becoming a thing of the past... (get it? thing? heh heh heh...) I discovered this when trying to buy CV joints for my 944, was unable to locate a VW parts place that could sell me just the joints... I was able to locate a place that rebuilds CV axles for cheap though.

I am, and I have filed that away for future reference. Wouldn't that make the generator slightly less efficient though, and the dust from the brushes more "gummy?" Or does it not really matter that much in the grand scheme of things?

nate

Reply to
N8N

Jan Kalin wrote: .

Yes! forgot about my old Fiat 600. That car had a lot of problems, but the one good thing I remember is that I replaced a set of rod bearings on it in less than three hours :-)

Reply to
Don Stauffer

Rambler also used push-button automatics in the late 1950s/early 1960s timeframe. It was a mechanical, cable-operated system.

Reply to
Roger Blake

In the 1930s, Nash had the starter button activated by the clutch pedal, you pushed the pedal all the way down to engage the starter. (This was supposed to be a safety feature to prevent accidentally starting while in gear.)

Reply to
Roger Blake

I had a 46 Hudson that had a dash mounted push button transmission control in addition to the gear shift lever. To drive in auto mode the the auto button would be slelected on the dash and the gear shift lever would be placed in the 2nd gear position. Upon stepping on the throttle the electro mechanical apparatus would engage the fluid filled clutch and the car would drive away in second gear and then automatically upshift to third and downshift to 2nd as required. My 2 cents on nostalgia Peter

Reply to
Peter W Peternouschek

I believe the Ramblers used Chrysler transmissions for a period.

Reply to
<HLS

Not sure about that last item Nate. Most engines are so gummy anyway it may not make much difference. ;-) It also may not be a problem because of the high pressure of the brush/commutator (remember them things?) contact. High speed telemetry this ain't.

You file alway useless bits of information...too? That's why my memory is getting so bad...information overflow. :-P

Reply to
Don.

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