Re: ES 330 Transmission Jerking & Hesitation

It's happened to me too, scared me to death not less than a few times. I don't have the money to step up beyond this price point, this was really a treat for working so hard. I wanted to treat myself to a "near-luxury" car, and the ES300 fit the bill, or so I thought. I had driven only Toyota vehicles for 20 years, so I trusted that the ES300 would be rock solid. I feel like I've been had.

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 22:36:23 -0400, "Rumple Stiltskin" graced this newsgroup with:

...not EVERY Lexus or ES300 has this problem. Our 00 ES doesn't and my 02 LS doesn't.

My '05 ES is fine as is my wife's '04 rx.

But I know this does happen, because I experienced it in a loaner from the dealer.

Neither my wife nor I are lead footed. Who knows how the loaner was driven. Could it be a problem for more aggresive drivers?

You bring up an interesting point. I don't know how old you are, but most ES drivers are older and drive so conservatively that they never notice the transmission lag. As for the fella who said he didn't have problems, we're talking here about the ES only, in the most recent model years. I've never heard of a '00 ES having the problem.

That was before the big engineering change that introduced all the problems.

Yeah, the older ES didn't have the issue. The problem was introduced when they put in the new drive by wire garbage, which, by the way, doesn't have to be "garbage", my experience tells me that Lexus' implementation of DBW was garbage. I am 40 years old, drive in a big city with lots of traffic and hills, and I like my car to move when I want it to. Am I an aggressive driver? By the standards of most all other Lexus owners, I would say absolutely. If you have nowhere to go in a hurry, then the Lexus is a terrific car. I'm just a little more busy than that. I'd actually like to try out the new Acura TL in place of the ES.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 14:35:40 -0400, "Rumple Stiltskin" graced this newsgroup with:

whoah..wait. I thought the 00 had drive by wire? Also I'm pretty sure my LS (which has already been mentioned doesn't have this problem anyway), has DBW as well.

I think it's strictly related to the latest ES transmission, which by coincidence, happen to have wire technology.

Hi All. What exactly is the problem? How does the transmission jerk and how is it so dangerous? I have a 98 gs 300 and its being run into the ground w/o a single problem. Just curious. Thanks.

just google it and you'll find plenty

Wow, didn't realize this was an actual problem. So as the first guy asked, is it worth getting this 'upgrade', is it free from Lexus?

My fiance recently treated herself to a 2002 Lexus ES300. It's immaculate in most everyway and to be honest I didn't notice the lag at first. But now it's obvious. It's no unbearable, I just compensate for it but I have been curious about it for a couple weeks until I saw this post. It's only really annoying pulling into traffic, around a turn or something I just find myself more aggressive on the brakes to gas in earlier (cause I know I won't get acceleration for a couple seconds).

But if it's free and might solve this is it worth trying? While I'm at it maybe I can get them to fix that power sunroof switch (the auto open fails).

Now that I know it's a standard 'feature' I'm sorely disappointed in Lexus. Other than that I really like the car, the 20-25MPG, the power and especially the handling, was thinking at looking at Lexus for my next car as well. Guess I'll still with lightened 80s Audi with custom ECUs for a couple more years.

Chris

In my driving habits, the latest "fix" doesn't resolve the lag problem. When making quick change lane movements, especially when you really need to hit it when you're in traffic, it usually disapppoints.

As cjwerner said, many of us now compensate for the lack of response in other ways, which in some cases can backfire and produce dangerous driving situations. Go ahead and get another Lex, cj, but now you know. If you didn't notice the problem before, sorry you had to find out. If it didn't bother you before, don't let it bother you now.

BTW,,, the next line ES 330.. in 2007 is a NEW model... do ya think the Tranny problem will be fixed then? ( thoe one in the 02 to 06 model)

as an alternative.. how does the LS430 compare... i know its more expensive... etc etc.... .. anyone heard of problems with it.. 2001 onwards.

If I had to guess, I would definitely have an opinion. I'd like to be optimistic, though, that Toyota has brought some new, and hopefully more talented, minds into the engineering pool to get it worked out for '07.

Umm, what's wrong with you people? Toyota is notorious for two things.

Thing #1 is that they nearly always take somebody else's idea and refine the wheee out of it, and deliver a bulletproof product. There's very little literally "new" about most Toyotas, and precious little driving pleasure to be had, regardless of price point, but my God, does Toyota every build a reliable transportation appliance!

Thing #2 is that Toyota does not give a rat's ass about customers. Toyota cares about making money. Their first and primary response to any external criticism is ALWAYS to deny. It happened when Camry door lock systems melted down and trapped customers inside their vehicles. It happened when V6 engine head gaskets failed en masse. It happened when engine oil suddenly turned to jello. It's happening now when a lame transmission design compromises occupant safety. When customer unhappiness starts to cost them money they will respond like greased lightening, but meanwhile you are flat out of luck.

The transmission shift issue results from the complicated interplay of software programs written for electronic controllers for the engine and transmission. Like many mfg, Toyota has chosen to travel down the "electronic nanny" path. Toyota customers confuse electronic gadgetry with luxury, so long as it works (see the preposterous comments elsewhere in this group about "automatic" wipers - some luxury THAT turned out to be, eh? I mean, really, it's not 20 years at hard labor to turn on the wipers when it starts to rain, is it?).

The plain and unavoidable reality of life is that NO software program or electronic controller has ever been invented, nor will one EVER be invented, that can foretell the future. The electronic nanny will do her best to anticipate what the driver is about to do, but her information about the future is based ENTIRELY upon the past, and she will ALWAYS be a half-step behind reality. If reality suddenly changes in unanticipated ways (i.e., the driver gets into a sudden emergency) the electronic nanny has no advance notice. She is busy saving the planet, and is ill-prepared to deliver a sudden surge of acceleration. Just about takes a committee meeting. Oops! Cancel that last fuel-saving upshift. Unlock the torque converter. Retard the engine timing to REDUCE engine power to protect the transmission clutches. Calculate the appropriate gear for the level of acceleration indicated by the gas pedal position. OK, downshift. Now check to make sure the shift completed. All OK? Great, advance timing in preparation to produce more power. Now, finally, tell the electronic throttle to open wide.

Driver, meanwhile, has been anxiously awaiting power, and in the absence of a response has pressed down harder and harder on the accelerator, and has taken what other evasive measures are available. As quickly as it began, the emergency is is suddenly resolved one way or the other, but without the desired burst of power. Nonetheless, driver ordered nanny to summon BIG POWER, and BIG POWER driver shall have, and here it comes, late to the party and an unwelcome guest. Driver suddenly has a new emergency to deal with, and once again electronic nanny is caught flat-footed. Quick! Another emergency board meeting! The board is utterly confounded. Driver was screaming for BIG POWER, but now driver is standing on BRAKE! What's going on here? Time to go back to saving the planet. Close electronic throttle. Alert ABS system. Engage ant-skid system. Retard the timing. Calculate the highest gear compatible with road speed. Shift the transmission. Check to make sure the shift completed. Lock the torque converter. Sheesh. Pretty much wears electronic nanny out!

Consider that the software programs and electronic controllers must perform this complicated ballet continually. Imagine the complications and permutations of circumstance in stop-and-go driving. To give the devil his due, Toyota has done as well in this area as any other manufacturer, but the basic design premise is flawed.

Every driver has a unique style. Certain driving styles will be a better match for certain software designs, but some combinations of drivers and software designs will be a disaster. The manufacturer can only hope to provide software that is a satisfactory match for MOST driving styles, and even that design will be unable to provide optimal response to some situations. Those of you who LIKE electronic nanny should learn to live with her shortcomings. They are unavoidable. Those of you who prefer to take responsibility for your own lives should buy some other brand of vehicle.

Rumple Stiltsk> If I had to guess, I would definitely have an opinion. I'd like to be

I can't argue with your points. Note also the recall yesterday of almost 1 million Toyotas. Prior to a few years ago, we rarely ever heard of a Toyota recall, especially for something as critical as this recall. A shame, I do believe Toyota made a better product in the past, but I think they're subject to the same crappy quality that comes from the new "world economy" and cheap overseas labor.

I have an 2006 RX330 and brought it new (I never owned a Lexus before) Is the transmission similar to ES330. I had this for couple of months and experiencing a similar jerks. These jerks are more prominent during intial acceleration.

Can I take to the dealership and compalin about it. What is good way to describe it, so that I get full attention.

Earlier, I once took it to the dealership and said described it was acceleration problem. Dealership checked and said the acceleration is fine. My bad way to put the thing ...

Thanks,

-LexusBee

I would suggest that it is what it is, and you probably should get used to it and learn to work around it. There are some who post here who think the tranny works just fine, even with the lag problems so many owners have complained about. I've considered it to be a safety problem, and I've been attacked for that. So, my advice, learn to live with it, it's normal, it's working as designed, you're driving the "relentless pursuit of perfection", and you should just enjoy it. Of course, I don't believe any of that, but if I don't say that, the attack dogs will be out.