Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

Patents and trademarks. Why spend 80,000$ on a porsche when you can pay

45,000$ and get a BMW? That's why Porsche is Porsche, Lexus is Lexus and BMW is BMW. Otherwise, we'd all be driving the same car.

Regards, Dave

Apparently Porsche has been asking themselves the same question, and they are having a hard time justifying the status quo. Why buy a 911 when one can buy a M3 AND a 350Z? Both offer comparable HP and driving enjoyment as the 911, that's why starting 2005 model year Porsche will start offering more powerful engines and a design (more bug eyed) that which will be distinguishable between the 911 and the boxter.

no, Honda is *arguably* the most advanced car company. That means "it can be argued that..."

If Honda is INarguably the most advanced car company, what you're saying is that it CAN'T be argued that Honda is the most advanced car company. Which is silly, because obviously an argument CAN be made that such is the case.

15 year old BMWs don't drive anything like new, and there aren't that many on the road--because they're too freaking expensive to keep on the road.

You talk about "Jap cars", so your bias is obvious. You'll do anything to slur a car sold by a Japanese company, and make the BMW look like gold. In fact, there are many, MANY more 15 year old Japanese cars on the road than BMWs, percentage-wise.

There you go with the "Jap cars" again.

Let me show you a 12 year old Honda that never got exterior care beyond a washing every now and then and keeping it in the garage, but the clearcoat is still gorgeous and there's no rust on it--and it drove every day in all kinds of weather, including lots of snow.

You have a bias, that's for sure. Go ahead and open your mind a bit about the world of cars.

The new 7-series BMW is ugly enough to make me take back what I've said about European styling. I wouldn't pay $100 for that car, let alone $100k. I still think that the 3-series has nice lines (at least until they destroy it in the next re-style), and that with a few exceptions, the Japanese couldn't design a pretty car to save their lives and should just hire a European design team. US cars by and large don't even register and aren't worth talking about.

that's absolutely true. If you're in it for the long haul, and don't want to put your mechanic's kids through college, buy a Toyota or Honda.

Gee, if they can hire American designers, they could as easily hire European. It'd help their looks a lot

Or, in the case of the Toyota Scion xB, like Whirlpool made a car.

This is a proven fact.

Honda decided, after years of building only 4-stroke motorcycles, that they would build 2-stroke motocross bikes. The first year they were out they dominated their classes.

Honda decided to go F1 racing. They couldn't decide whether to build one of two designs, so they built both, just to be sure that they would have the best one.

Unfortunately, this attitude doesn't explain the Element...

George

in article EG58b.40326$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrddc01.gnilink.net, Ron Loewy at snipped-for-privacy@transport.com wrote on 9/11/03 4:20 PM:

Except that the S2K engine has so little torque that it is a total PITA to drive in everyday traffic.

Actually, they are. A fair number of the Toyotas and Hondas rolling off US lines are RHD, and most of those go to Japan.

Absolutely. It really isn't fair to compare the Z3 to the S2K though -- the former is more of a sporty, cute car, like an SLK, while the latter is a real sports car. Most Z3 and even Z4 buyers would not like the S2K, but a serious sports driving enthusiast would.

Honda knows they don't have the cachet of BMW, so they eschew the sports/luxury/prestige niche in favor of the youth/sports niche that no one else is addressing.

It's true, if/when Honda does decide to build a BMW-killer (as Toyota/Lexus has), watch out!

I'd have to think about that one. For fun sports driving I'd much rather have the Miata, but for long highway trips I'd take the Z3.

Yes it was, unfortunately it was also a tinny, unreliable POS.

Matt O.

I drive a 1.6L Miata with less torque than an S2K and it does just fine in everyday traffic. You just have to be willing to rev it. No problems what so ever.

Ron.

You are probably right, but why bother with a roadster for highway trips at all? Wrong tool for the job.

It was a modern track car you could register for the road - with all the limitations that this design goal present. The unreliable part was more because of the hard to reach oil filter, not because of any other design or execution issue. If the mechanics/owners took care of the car properly - it usually lasts long enough. But, generally - you are right. They are more fragile than your average everyday car.

Ron.

Not to mention the price tag $$$

Which was the point of my post - a car built to BMW specifications - and in the quantities supported by a "BMW market" would cost the same as a BMW.

Jack

Honda exported some versions of US-built Accords to Japan in past years because the particular version was not built in Japan.

Toyota currently exports the Voltz to Japan. The Voltz is similar to the Pontiac Vibe (which itself is only cosmetically different from the Toyota Matrix), but has right hand drive and other modifications for the Japan market. The Voltz and Vibe are made in the same factory in the US (where Corollas and Tacomas are also built).

Around here, for every '85 bimmer on the road, there's about a 1000 Civic Hatch. My ratio might be a little off, but old Civic are a common occurence and the old bimmers are nowhere to be seen. However, I agree that an old car, in good condition, can still kick ass.

Pars

Hugh Gundersen wrote:

bimmers get sent to the scrap yard early, because parts are so expensive. why spend $1000 on brake parts for a $3000 bimmer?

LOL....

nb