1998 Escort won't start

Have you tried disconnecting the fuel feed line, powering the pump and ensuring that it continues to run for several gallons, it may be a failing pump. My nephews escort had the failing at 4k rpm thing too, I never did find what it was, but I suspected a faulty exhaust.

mrcheerful

How do I do that? I don't fancy running a live 12 supply near the pump just incase, so I'd rather "hot-wire" it at the box. I know that there is a relay on top of the fuse box which activates the pump - which one is it and how do I go about keeping the circuit live?

This only appears to be in second gear for some reason :-S, once it's had it's tantrum with the flat spot it picks up again and you can cain it right to the end of 3rd (not that I do that often, just since the car's been playing up I've thought a good caining might clear something).

I know what you mean - the catalyst on this car has just been replaced due to that very problem apart from it wouldn't go above 3500rpm and the cars top speed was about 47mph in 5th gear on a flat :))

Graham

I didn't see the previous posts so I don't know if this was asked: is the zorst blocked up solid?

When it starts have you checked that something's actually coming out of the end of the pipe?

Si

Pardon my ignorance - but what is the zorst? Do you mean exhaust? If so, I'd imagine not, with the catalyst being replaced only 2000 miles ago.

Just incase you do mean exhaust, I'll check now...

G>

Sorry - the mechanics I've worked with have always called exhausts "zorsts" :)

Yes, the exhaust.

If

Oh well, probably not then.

Righto.

Si - in anticipation.

Sounds like you have two separate problems- in reverse order- was the exhuast system checked and debris from the broken up catalyst removed when the cat was replaced. If not, why not- this is most likely the cause of the high revs/high load lack of power.

The pump relay is indeed in the engine fuse box, pull it out, then jumper terms 30 and 31- the pump should then run at all times when the ignition is on. With the fuel feed to the rail disconnected and pointed into a jug at least you can determine if the pump is good or not- should be a goodly constant squirt of fuel.

If there appears good fuel feed, then you'd need to check the HT system, and then whip out the plugs and tell us what colour they are. If they are dry then obviously the injectors arent, if they are wet then we have an overfuelling problem.

Really we need to know this before sugesting what you do next...

That doesn't help much on these, the entire system is fully managed now, and the ECU could cut fuelling for a number of reasons.

That confirms that at least 50% of the system is OK. Both relays to the ECU are OK, the fuel pump relay is OK, the Crank Position Sensor is OK [1], as is all the working to the pump. The ECU sends a pulse to the CPS on ignition on, if it works it then primes the fuel pump, this is all controlled by the ECU, so all the power supplies have to work too.

I take it you haven't messed with the fuel pressure regulator? increasing the pressure has a habit of destroying the pump, although I doubt this is the case here as it does try to start.

Aha, I would suspect the Throttle Position Sensor is at fault there.

These also suffer with a natural flat spot due to crap programming in the ECU. They have to shut off fuel on light throttle to meet EU emissions, which causes a flat spot.

Try simply unplugging the Throttle Position Sensor first, if this works, then that is the fault.

These are also prone to fuse box failures too, I replaced dozens of the things. They get damp from the front screen.

One more thing I have just thought of, is to check the fuel cut off switch hasn't been activated, IIRC it's inside one of the footwells (there's a hole in the panel).

Nothing has been played with - it just started playing up.

Ouch, but I've kept away.

It's only started happening at the same time as the cut outs.

Will do.

Expensive? Or will a scrappy one do?

I thought that too, it's behind a little pop out panel on the drivers footwell, and its fine.

Will check in the morning.

Cheers for the input :)

Graham

Thought as much ;-)

Have checked while the Mrs tried to start it, there is output from the "zorst" and it seems quite normal in comparison to a cold Focus starting (other than the Focus doesn't go caput after a second !)

Graham

I don't think this would be a problem as the entire exhaust system was replaced from the manifold to the tailpipe (mechanic snapped the exhaust while trying to get the catalyst off).

Will give all this a bash tomorrow morning and let you know how I get on.

Cheers for your time.

Graham

On an EEC4 ECU:

No, the fuel pump priming on key-on is not dependant on continuity from either the CPS or the CAS at all. The ECU will fire up the pump for aroound

However, if the pump runs continuously then the ECU has determined a fault from *the last run* which is still present. Components which will cause this is open or short from the MAF or open or short from the CPS. No others.

Yes it does prove that the power supply, and relay ok and that the ECU is capable of pulling it to earth to energise the relay, and that the ECU is getting proper power.

this is all

Its usually always 3000- ~3500rpm- around 60-75mph cruising speed. - Very noticable on a Focus. By 3800rpm and above normal power is resumed.

A faulty TPS will exhibit a power loss at a particular throttle position- irespective of load or engine speed, however to double check disconnect it and try the car as Andy suggests.

Tim..

Expensive from Ford yes, BUT if looking at a scrappy one (assuming you find one- they're now rare!!) the FINIS number *must* be exactly the same. If not- things will go haywire- if they work at all.

Anyhow the internal fusebox has little to do with the Engine management, other than providing power to the fuel pump relay.

Tim..

Good.

Righto. It might point to the throttle sensor then.

It's so common I wouldn't bother with a scrap one, you're just as likely to get the same, or worse, problems. These are about £130 new though. However, there are a few good electricians that can repair these.

HTH :-)

That's not what I was told on my EEC IV training course. Besides the EEC IV systems didn't have a camshaft angle sensor.

They only fitted EEC V to the Escorts for a few months, so nearly all are EEC IV.

On EEC IV systems the test isn't for continuity from the CPS as such, the test is done by the EDIS module, and then signals the EEC that it's OK.

This is an excerpt from my course notes:

"CPS

This is a Variable Reluctance Sensor and should be tested using A/C Volts. Pickup wheel cutout is set at 90º BTDC (4 cyl) or 75º (RS) or 60º (V6)

Test CPS at EDIS connector (this also checks the wiring as well) Continuity should be 250 - 500 ? - typically 250 - 420 ? A/C volts should be at least 1v at crank speed (may be less if battery poor) If car starts ignore this test (non start only)

EDIS tests - pull off connector if fuel pump runs PIP ok. timing will be at 10º if SAW missing.

NB. If fuel pump runs the FIR and FPR relays, EEC, EDIS, CPS and wiring are all OK."

I don't believe EEC IV had that capability.

Indeed.

Indeed, I was suggesting it as a very easy component to test.