A family member has said 100K+ mile Avensis that whist cost little (400 quid), has cost a few quid in parts along the way (battery, exhaust (£500), n/s/r damper (£400), tyres and so on.
The Ibiza has come up cheap via a mate that has done 50K, single, local lady owner from new, full MOT, everything works (inc a/c) etc etc.
Now I know nothing of Seat's or VW's (FWIW) as I've never known or dealt with either so does the panel think this Ibiza could be a good local runabout / shopping cart for someone on low income please?
Whilst it's a shame she's spent so much on the parts (and labour), especially if she gets rid (she actually like and likes driving the Avensis, when it's not costing her money) and go for the Seat, on the grounds that it's over half the mileage, probably cheaper to tax, insure and fuel and hopefully cost less to maintain, are there any other gotchas please?
Ok, but she rarely uses a fraction of it so not a real selling point in this case. Plus with no real family to lug about (1 kid and a dog) she could always fold a back seat down if she did need the space?
Well yes, but so far they haven't been. ;-(
That's about the only advantage atm (and then only for a couple of years) and the Ibiza is also 'known' in so much my mate has been servicing it for a while?
It looks like the tax is ~£145-185 (depending on when it was first registered) so cheaper than the £270 I think she said she was paying on the Avensis and I'm guessing the insurance on a small Spanish / German(?) car will be cheaper than a big Japanese one?
Don't get me wrong, I've been the grateful recipient of an old car that had had some money spent on it recently and then cost me little for the next 7 years (the Rover 218SD) but then I did all my own servicing as was 'lucky'?
She has had a couple of perfectly tidy older cars written off by other people (one pulled out in front of her Fiesta and someone ran into the back of her Rover) and really isn't a 'car person' (she's not into cars as such).
And then there is the parking ... the Avensis is a big lump to park ... ?
Thanks for your thoughts though MrC and no decisions have been made yet. ;-)
Swapping one 15YO car for another 15YO car in the hope of reducing bills is faulty thinking in the extreme. Mileage, particularly at this age, is totally irrelevent.
I don't see anything on the Avensis list that's indicative of it about to fall apart and, now they're paid for, aren't going to want doing again in a hurry. OTOH, it's exactly the sort of list the Ibiza could well generate in the next year.
Running a car costs a certain lump per year whether it's in maintenance of an older car or depreciation of a newer (and theoretically more reliable) one. Tax, fuel & insurance are immaterial as the difference between one car and another is significant. And for those where it is significant then I maintain that car ownership isn't actually viable.
IME, the only way to run a car on a skintight budget is to do the work oneself or have friends who will. There's no magic bullet.
the tyre is about 75 quid for a really good one and half for rubbish, the battery is 75 quid for a bosch, the exhaust would depend on the need for a cat, but think 50 quid per bit say 150 and another 100 for a cat, shocks are 50 quid a pair for pattern plus up to about a hundred and fifty to fit the lot, these costs would be close to identical for the seat.
All agreed in general ... however, unless the more expensive parts last proportionally longer (and given the chances are they will never be worn out in her usage pattern), it's the straight price of these parts that can make a huge difference.
Like, a mate needed a nearly straight section of exhaust for his Mitsubishi 4x4 thing and it was over £200 + delay in getting it plus fitting. How much would the same thing be on say a Corsa or this Ibiza? How much would a Ibiza rear damper be. £400+ for a pattern part (the actual cheapest damper was around £160 I think).
Yearly costs like Tax is £185 V £250 (or more), insurance (she's done a straight online new quote for both) are ~£450 and ~£900 and I'm assuming the mpg will be a bit better on the 1.4 over the 2l, especially over her short trips to work and the shops?
And ... maybe I would be more inclined to work on the (smaller) Ibiza over the monster of the Avensis so we agree on the last bit. ;-)
But those prices weren't even Toyota dealer or genuine Toyota parts prices I quoted. ;-(
Quite, and something I might be more inclined to help her with if it wasn't truck sized or fairly complex engineering. ;-)
We (the Mrs and I) built the MkII Escort based kitcar and I've done most other things on yer more basic / small vehicles but when I've considered jacking up and working on (under) the Avensis I've thought better of it (for all sorts of reasons but the sheer size of it being one).
That said, I did some fairly big stuff on my LWB Bedford CF camper (inc changing the rear road springs and front suspension bushes) but the stuff was pretty simple, cheap and easy to get at (being a 'van'). I was also much younger then. ;-)
They were all also mine and it was my problem if it broke and I couldn't get to work. ;-)
Even replacing the front disks on ex SIL's HiLux was pretty easy because of the simplicity and ease of access. Not sure I'd want to remove the transfer box or gearbox though.
Daughter changed the rear road springs on her Corsa herself and it cost 'nothing' for the parts and she did it in about an hour.
And how for a branded Ibiza tyre (185/60 14 82R is it)? 40 quid fitted for an Avon for example? That's 140 quid less for the set.
Ok, probably a bit less for the Ibiza (027?)
I think it cost her £500 fitted for all but the cat (because they couldn't get matching bits and few places had anything at all in stock).
Hmm, when we rang around at the time there was nothing worth having under £100 each and the cheapest were more like £60 (each)?
So, are we saying the pattern Seat bits for a 1.4 are just as expensive as pattern bits for a 2l Toyota? That seems to fly in the face of the whole 'Jap stuff it always expensive' thing?
When looking at Nissan Cabstars recently, why did everone say 'they are good but the parts are *very* expensive'?
My neighbour and his brother have avensises, neither has needed very much at all, the only thing I did not replace which needed to be was the HEGO sensor on the petrol one, but it was a hundred quid and only occasionally put the mil light on, he eventually traded it in for a Corolla and almost immediately regretted it, it was just too small for him.
I don't understand why the Avensis parts are so expensive unless she's being right, royally screwed by whoever's fitting them. I don't have a lot of experience with Japanese stuff but plain part costs for the various cars I maintain are all much of a much what with the world being a global market and pattern parts available like tea dripping from an urn. I can imagine being screwed over for stupid (ie unpopular) cars like Ssanyongs or Dacias but I'd have thought Toyota had sufficient market share for people to compete to supply the bits and drive the price down on the back of that.
I replaced all 4 shocks (OEM Sachs) on my BM for £250 - and we all know that BMWs are expensive to run. I'd expect Vx stuff for 2s6d. VAG ought to be readily available being European and common.
Of course there are always dealer only parts and I'm sure I'd pay £200 for something mundane at BMW if I needed it in a hurry.
I remember looking into Mitsi Pajeros and was directed to a parts site that was at Land Rover pattern pricing level (ie cheap) so, again, I'm still not convinced by these prices.
£900 insurance is excessive - she ought not to have bought the car on that basis alone. The rest aren't important as the first battery or shock the Ibiza wants blows a chunk out of the savings from swapping. A bit like Diesel v petrol. Fuel savings are all fine until they're anhilitated by a failed injector!
I wouldn't say an Avensis is big! But I actually find working on larger vehicles a lot easier. Discos & Fiat Ulysseeseses you can climb underneath to fettle & check without even bothering to jack them up, for example. Similarly big, chunky, manly bolts don't round off. I've had more trouble from small fixings on small, quality cars than the large stuff on bloody-awful Land Rovers.
Well, she's run stuff past me before having it done and I've had a phone / click around and I'd say the prices *seemed* reasonable? Like according to Autodata a rear damper would take a couple of hours to change and that assuming everything came apart easily (a dangerous assumption on something that old)? The same section in the HBOL confirmed it wasn't just a 'simple / quick' job.
I think that can be true of the more common / popular stuff but not all vehicles ever seem to make that category.
So would I, but I don't believe it is *always* the case.
That's the hope. ;-)
Quite. ;-(
Ok.
Indeed ... but it was being sold by a neighbour cheap and she needed a car and she was going to transfer the insurance off the written off one so I'm guessing she didn't do her homework.
The problem is she has already made that choice (sell or repair) and at least twice it has cost more than she paid for the car and *seemed* particularly expensive for what it was. Had it been something smaller and more 'known' (and the weather right) I might have offered to do the job(s) myself, as I have done for her previously.
Quite.
Well, it's bigger than anything she has had before and therefore
*does* find it more difficult to park in some of the smaller spaces. It may not be much longer than my Sierra Estate but I'd predict it is much heavier and certainly more complicated (judging by the disco we have seen come up on the dash lights now and again).
Ah, agreed, same with the campers, vans and my own 'jeep' clone kitcar. However, this Avensis is very low slung by comparison.
Good point (they just don't move easily). ;-)
;-)
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I'm in a similar position with the 04 1.6 Meriva 'Life' my Mum gave us when my Dad died 4 years ago. At the time the £100 Rover 218SD I'd run for 7 years (up to 200k miles) had just failed an MOT with some 'awkward things (rear suspension bushes and several other bits), the Meriva was offered and so I graciously accepted and got more for the Rover scrap than I paid for it. We often run Mum about so it was nice for her to keep the Meriva in the family. So far we have spent more on it in the 4 years than I have spent on anything else ever (including buying them in the first place) but it's still a reasonably new / clean looking low mileage runabout.
An ECU fault (£250 to have it re-furbed, fitted it myself), aircon condenser rad leak (£100 new rad), thermostat (and new cambelt kit whilst there (£200 I think, fitted) and now it needs a pair or CV joints. The new tyres and towbar don't really count although the Rover already had good tyres and a towbar. And the Rover did 50 mpg everywhere, Fuelio tells me I'm currently getting 28 mpg out of the (8v) Meriva. ;-(
Unfortunate. Mind you, think I need to review my idea of labour costs - doing much muyself for me and friends I think I've got out of touch with what costs what!
Ah. I suppose the insurance clasification is stuck with its original 90s "2.0 petrols are powerful, fast cars" - something rather kicked into touch with the recent BHP wars in even boggo cars.
Mind you, this seems to be normal for the banger end of the market. People want to buy an arbitrary 14' of car to move themselves about in and come unstuck because, not being interested in cars, don't think about fuel & insurance costs.
I've known a lot of women who, having had Jags, LRs & 5er's, wouldn't drive a small car if you paid them!!
Ha, yes! I like my 2' breaker bar!!
Now that's a nightmare. I've not touched a Vx for years but still have them lumped in with Ford as being reasonable propositions as transport. Is that just unlucky or are were they generally terrible in the 00s?
I bought a 2001 plate petrol Avensis secondhand in January 2005 (at £4,800) and ran it until November 2012 when I received about £150 for it p-ex.
Generally it was more reliable than the newer cars I've had since then.
The problems it had were:
1) Excessive oil consumption - perhaps a litre every 1,200 miles. Since then I've learnt that this may have been a manufacturing fault, which the dealer might have been able to get repaired under warranty. So I just kept putting oil in it ...!
2) Water ingress into the boot (for last couple of years of my ownership) - despite replacing the rubber seal around the boot lid. Part of this seemed to be leaks around the concealed air vents in the bodywork behind the rear wheels, but I never got to the bottom of it.
Of course it needed tyres, brake pads and new suspension bits in that time, also a replacement ignition key housing into which the orginal key and transponder fitted.
By comparison, since then:
Diesel Vectra - air leak in fuel lines only apparent after leaving it parked pointing uphill over a weekend - so then troublesome to start. Never able to resolve this, despite many hours work on it. Heater blower bearing failed eventually needing replacement of whole blower moter assembly. Starter motor sometimes failed to operate - ultimately this was why I sold it. I have since seen it being driven around Diss by a taxi company.
Diesel Skoda Octavia - the subject of another post here: both external air temperature sensors (on front bumper and in air intake to heater-a/c system) intermittently - now usually - read wrongly, so a/c fails to operate. So I suspect a wiring or connector fault, or some common component such as a voltage regulator. Really annoying fault, Skoda dealer has no idea how to find it and cannot guarantee a repair.
When buying the Skoda I did see an Avensis estate. Much nicer car, slightly out of my price range, and perversely less carrying width between the rear wheel arches than the Skoda - so to get the same amount of "stuff" in it would have meant piling it up and blocking the rear view. Regretting not finding the money for it now ...
And the fact that it's a 'Jap' and therefore parts (especially genuine) *are* more expensive.
Quite.
She has actually considered that the ride probably won't be as nice in the Ibiza as the Avensis but she's generally not in it long enough for it to really count.
;-)
Agreed.
We had an 1800 Victor years ago (obviously ) and that was a pretty reliable car (very actually). Daughters £400 2001 Corsa 1.2 is coming up to 200,000 miles and apart from some minor bits (that can generally be fixed cheaply) has also been a good little runabout (including several trips between London and Dumfries).
The 93 1.4i GLS Astra (that was originally my Dads, went to my Niece then came to us) had 110,00 on it before being written off by a hit_and_run artic whilst parked. No real problems considering it's age and we never touched the engine at all (apart from a cambelt when we got it, JIC).
Some of the problems the Meriva has suffered are to be fair issues with it having the things (like aircon with it's rad out front vulnerable to stones and corrosion) and not something I've suffered issues with before because no car I've owned has ever had a/c.
The rear tyres turned out to be the originals as fitted in 2004 and only changed because they were old!
The ECU is fitted in (IMHO) in a stupid place for such things, on the end of the head! I couldn't think of anywhere better if you were looking for a the maximum range of temperature changes and the highest levels of vibration (well, apart from on the exhaust manifold possibly). ;-(
Apparently the C/V joints are known to be poor on some Vauxhalls and I'm not sure I'd count the mirror glass falling off as a major issue. ;-)
I think I'm a Ford man' as I have had more Fords over a longer period than any other brand and know them a bit. The kitcar is based on a 78 Mk2 Escort and still running nearly 40 years later (when it will be TAX exempt). ;-)
I had the 2l GL Sierra Estate 23 years and 100+k miles and it only let me down twice when the cambelt snapped (safe engine so home with a new belt fitted within an hour) and a brake caliper heat seized. I had that car as a Co car from new and bought it off them when I left for £25 and ran it for another 10 years. ;-)
The point was, it was 'simple'. Most of the things that have gone wrong on subsequent cars were things that the Sierra didn't have. PAS / electric windows (Rover), central locking (Rover, Astra), A/C (Meriva), ECU (Meriva), etc.
If you are talking about the Meriva it wasn't as simple as that eh?
1) My Mum gave it to us because whilst she was always on the insurance and passed her test first time at 50 (years old, not mph ) never drove if they were going out ... and only drove a bit (locally) when she had her own cars (MM Saloon / Fiat Panda).
2) The Mrs loves the Meriva because of a) it's easy to get in and out of and drive and b) she's still having thermal surges and in this weather the aircon is a huge comfort and c) she finds the drivers position give her a good view all round (not quite the same for me because being taller I rarely have problems seeing over the dash / bonnet and do suffer viability issues because of the front body posts (because I sit so far back).
3) In spite of it not being a 'drivers car' (getting back in daughters Corsa reminds me of that, even though they share a common platform), simply because of the height / body roll, it takes my 6' 2" body with ease and that's not the case with many vehicles.
4) Despite it's small size, it's carried a vast range of stuff I'd not have been able to get in any estate, simply because of the height of the load area. And in spite of it not being much (any) longer than a Corsa, the other day I picked up a (heavy) 3m long awning and two similar length 75mm square steel box section supports and they only stuck out under the tailgate 30 cms or so. We had a 4 draw steel filing cabinet in it and 3 big people. A std fridge went across the load area with the rear seats still up, and it's often been full of firewood etc etc. And because there is no lip and the loading area nearly flat, it's very easy to load.
Now, if I was regularly commuting along fast / twist roads it wouldn't be much fun, but using it as a van / minibus for local runs and considering its still cost us less than it was worth when we were given it, AND it was Mums and we still run her about in it, it's not a bad tool.
And in spite of a few little knocks and bumps, the body / paintwork is still very good and certainly in comparison with the peeling lacquer on the Rover and the matt pink of what should have been a red Sierra. ;-)
No, you can be lucky I guess, depending on how much the person you get it from has spent on it, how well it was looked after, how well it was treated etc.
Ok.
That won't be the case in this case as she doesn't need a 'big car' (for anything) and in fact a smaller car would be an advantage in most circumstances.
I can see how if you like or need 'a big car' the Avensis could be a good choice but in this case it was only chosen because it was there and partly 'known' (as she knew the couple who owned it).
Assuming there was some space to put a child and small dog, she could probably get away with a Smart car and defiantly find it easier to park and drive (though the traffic and narrow gaps. That's partly the reason why our daughter loves her Connect over a std Transit).
So, know anyone who would like this Avensis MrC? Newish exhaust, battery, n/s/r damper, tyre(s) and MOT? Happy to deliver for the right money. If you don't, what would you think it was worth (for a quick sale)?
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