2001 Seat Ibiza S 1.4 v 2001 Avensis?

the age precludes it having real value, I would guesstimate 700 tops

Reply to
MrCheerful
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There's some on Autotrader with full MOT from a dealer in the 500UKP area; as a private sale I wouldn't expect it to be worth more than 400.

FWIW, I would advise keeping the Avensis as a no-brainer. It was a significantly better car when new, and its history is known.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Jeezz!! that is expensive. I run an A6 estate at 65 y/o and thats just a couple of hundred quid online!..

This lady isn't a new young driver perchance;)?...

But as another poster alluded to earlier a car thats now on 15 years old would she not be better off investing in something younger?.

Reply to
tony sayer

Unlike my Messerschmitt KR200. ;-)

Ok, thanks. A lot more than 'scrap' then.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

That was my thought Chris (as that's what she paid for it).

Really, it's that black and white?

Better in what way though? I'm not sure how many of the 'fancy features' are still working (like a/c, if it ever had it) and I'm not sure how many of them (outside the radio) she would use in any case?

I know it's a 'big car' and so by some peoples view that makes it 'better' (probably a better ride (because it's heavier) and may well be safer (because it's 'bigger')) and it could probably carry more. Apart from any inherent safety because of it's size, I don't think

*she* would count any of the others as a good enough advantage to outweigh any of the potential cost and size disadvantages.

Well, ~1+ years of it's 15 are known, versus the 5 my mate has been servicing the Seat.

Is this not like an old CRT TV versus a new TFT one? The chances are the old CRT cost more to make, was better built and ignoring the rounded screen, probably worked and certainly sounded (with it's decent speaker enclosures) better in use. But if you want to carry it up stairs on your own or hang it on a wall the things that made it good, also made it bad?

So why don't more people buy and run these big old cars (even Rollers) when you can often get them for next to nothing? Isn't it because they are expensive to run and often just 'too big' for most people today?

And ignoring the fact it may be a 'better car' by some people views (and I'm not saying it isn't, when new and everything working I could imagine it would have been a cool thing to have, if you liked big cars etc) it *IS* more expensive to insure (she's checked, by nearly double), it *is* more expensive to tax (by a third) may be more expensive to fuel (I think it also drinks oil).

There are several lights that can come up on the dash and I'd hate to think how expensive any of them would be to fix if they suggested an issue that caused an MOT fail.

As I said, I'm sure it was a nice car in it's day and if you like big cars (or wanted to go banger racing ) I'm sure it's still good now but I'm not sure it's appropriate for one girl her kid and a dog on a pretty basic wage (I'm not suggesting the kid or dog are working). ;-)

What I was really listening out for is some guidance to tell me / us why the Ibiza isn't ok and I don't think I've heard anything as such. Maybe it was my fault for posting with the Versus in the title (although it was and is still relevant).

Maybe I should have started ... 'Given a TCO of £750/ year (ignoring fuel, tyres and servicing etc), would the Ibiza be a reasonable candidate' (as the Avensis never can be, just with it's cost to Tax and insure)? The issue is would the extra justify any real world advantages for this particular driver?

And thanks again (to all) for the feedback. I am listening and that's why it's not a done deal yet.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

It is isn't it. Even our daughters first fully comp cover on her Corsa as a full licence holder wasn't that.

No, she's 36 but has been a bit unlucky (no blame claims mainly) that are still going against her (as the £350 payout 'claim' on the Astra crushed by a hit-and-run lorry whilst we were asleep is against us). I think her premium went from 700 to 900 at the last renewal.

She would, if she had any money to invest in anything. This wasn't part of the original plan but we would probably treat her to the Seat, partly to ease her over the transition and because we have probably spent the same on her sister of late. She's not going to get much back on the insurance, simply because of the timing and similar with the tax. She also needs to sell the Avensis to have any money 'left' at all.

However, if you add up the cost of train fares to work and the convenience of having a car for other things like shopping and taking the kid to school in the bad weather, it is worth (as in 'cheaper') her having a car, as long as it doesn't cost ~£450 just for parts that should have been much cheaper and / or that I could change for her if it was less complicated Like, I understand the Avensis has a fairly complicated rear suspension setup and consequently changing a rear damper wasn't something you could just do in the road, as you could with say our daughters Corsa. Because the Avensis isn't as common as the Corsa (and hopefully the Ibiza) then that means pattern / second hand parts aren't as plentiful out there?

Just OOI ...

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(all models) I don't know what model Avensis she's got, only that it's a 2L VVi(?),

2001, hatchback. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

p.s. You can see the 'butterfly effect' road registered / SORN (they only come out in summer) of my motorbike here:

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Reply to
T i m
[...]

To me, yes.

Any car of this age is a gamble, and you might only expect it to provide economic transport for a year or so, but the fact that the Avensis has had outstanding issues fixed are a bonus.

The only way she could lose is if the Avensis repairs cost more in the next year than the purchase price of the Ibiza.

BTW, try to sort her out with a sensible garage. An Avensis rear shock is 75 quid max, and fitting time 1.8 hours. She paid more than double what was a reasonable price for this repair.

Much better built.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Ok ...

Ok.

Which it would, as we will probably buy her the Ibiza. ;-)

But no, I take your point but it is (all) a gamble and potentially a bigger and therefore more expensive gamble with the Avensis over the Ibiza? Two *knowns* are the greater cost of tax and insurance.

Typically we have, a local guy now good mate of 30+ years. However, he didn't want to touch the Avensis.

Well, unless things have changed (and there could be different models etc), when I gave the reg to our local car spares place 1) they didn't have anything in stock and 2) whilst the cheapest was around 75 quid, it wasn't recommended for use on that sort of car and the next one up was nearer 150 (and still way short of a genuine one). My point is I don't think even a genuine Seat rear damper would be anything like that sort of money and would be sufficiently say to fit that I would do it for her (for nothing).

I think with hindsight I might have misled slightly as the price I quoted for 'the job' also included the MOT. I bought the HBOL and looking at the job myself suggested it wasn't something I really wanted to do in the road. 21 steps up to 'Reassembly is the reverse ...' and including compressing what is probably a pretty heavy coil spring. If it were mine and I had a spare car I might have looked at it myself. As it was and with her needing it for work, a sheared bold or incompatible spare might have stranded it somewhere requiring extra recovery. In spite of her not having much spare cash, she had it done because she 'needed' the transport.

Better because it was bigger Chris? Better because it was more sophisticated (clever suspension over a more crude / simple setup). Better because it used higher quality components?

I'm trying to get to grips with those things that would provide a positive impact on *her*?

Those things being 'does it have a CD player' and what will it cost me each year (or at least they are the only things she can really afford). ;-(

Now, say the Seat cost us 400 quid, it has half the mileage and twice the known history of the Avensis and could be maintained by me or my mate, assuming it needs no more things from now on than the Avensis and *even* if they were the same price, it will still cost her less for the tax and insurance, may cost her less for the fuel and could cost her less to have serviced and repaired as my mate would do it for her (if I couldn't). Unlike the Avensis. So we would be able to control some of the other variables.

It would still be more of a car than she needs for her purposes (commuting and shopping) and has the advantage of being smaller and has aircon, if she can justify the mpg hit by turning it on.

I guess a good test of just how desirable an 11 month MOT'd Avensis is how quickly it sells (if she goes that way)?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Well, quite. The area makes a big difference as it was nearly half what it is here (Norf Lundin) when daughter was living in Dumfries.

It's just the potential running costs (parts) and the ability for me (or my mate) to so some of the bigger jobs.

I could trust my mate to only book the right hours but his (worse case) prediction on the damper job potentially made it way too expensive a risk and she probably would have scrapped it. The other problem was safely getting it the 10 miles to him compared with the garage round the corner from her (with a loud klonk coming from the nsr all the time). On the jobs they have done where it is far more 'known' the prices have always seemed 'reasonable' (even to me who rarely pays anyone to do anything I can't do myself).

Quite.

We have never bought a new car, never lusted after any car and only built our own (kitcar) because I was sick and tired of working on stuff that rusts away before your eyes (as many things did nearly 30 years ago).

My Dad allays used to say he had the 'best car in the world', because it was a company car and 'free' to him. ;-)

As long as it gets us from A to B and carries (and / or tows) all our goods and does so at the minimum cost then it's done it's job. I've paid far more money for a second hand motorbike than I've ever paid for any car. A car is a tool whereas bikes are 'fun' for us.

The Rover 218SD that paid £100 (with 6 months tax and 4 new tyres) lasted 7 years but the paintwork was horrible (lacquer peeling off the entire bonnet and most of the roof). A mate asked me when I was going to do anything about it and I suggested that if it offended him he could pay to get it fixed . If not, unless it made it go faster, the TAX or insurance cheaper, use less fuel or made it less attractive to vandals then I'd not spend a second or penny on it! He declined for some reason.

Now, for some people having a neat / smart vehicle it's part of what they are or (want to) represent ... or is even if they don't care about it (like sales reps or businessmen meeting potential clients etc)... but if someone was trying to sell me a service and was in a brand new / expensive vehicle I might question how much money they were making ... ?

My mate sold his Bentley Continental GT (and replaced it with a top-of-the-line Merc) for exactly that reason. He was generally outdoing clients at the golf course.

And I've never liked 'sports' (anything) either ... I'd much rather sit back and enjoy the ride ... especially if it's in / on something I have worked on and therefore feel part of. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

If the Seat costs 400 quid, has good Mot / service history, good tyres, brakes, exhaust and bodywork it is worth buying. (I've changed a Polo 1.4 timing belt with no great drama)

Reply to
Nick Finnigan

Or very close to.

Brand new.

Not sure about anything pre the 4-5 years ago when my mate took it on in his garage.

Well, 'legal' tyres at least as it just went through the MOT but I'm due to have a better look at the car soon so I'll check the tyres when I do.

Good enough to pass the MOT but no idea of the condition personally. However, if my mate has serviced it (rather than just fixed stuff as it happened) then I am reasonably confident the brakes will be ok as he always takes all 4 wheels and drums / hubs off if fitted.

Again, no holes or missing brackets as it's just gone though the MOT but no idea what general condition it's in. If she goes for it I might get mate to pop it up on one of his lifts and have a look (generally) myself.

Seems pretty clean. No major dents or holes that I've spotted and has had a quick run over with the DA.

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So is this a duplicate of a Polo but just made in Spain or is it very different would you know Nick (JOOI)?

According to this site:

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The timing belt should be changed every 4 years?

Cheers, T i m

p.s. FWIW, he was lining this car up for his Son but at the last knockings he decided to keep whatever he has now (for space reasons) so I'm guessing it should be in reasonable condition or he wouldn't have offered it to him?

Reply to
T i m
[.]]

Neither!

Both the Polo and Ibiza are made in Spain. They share 'essentials', but a lot of the minor stuff, interiors etc, are different and often Ibiza use cheaper components.

Confirmed via Autodata.

There are two 1.4 engines shown for that MY:

AKK has a single cam belt, repair time is 1.6 hours. APE has a secondary cam belt driving the exhaust camshaft, repair time 2.2 hours.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Doh! ;-)

Is that 'now' and / or was it 'then' (in 2001)?

So, engine suspension parts say. A Polo wishbone of that year / model would fit the matching Seat etc?

For our purposes that's 'a good thing'. ;-)

Crikey. That seems quite short? I think the Meriva (1.6 8V) was 10 years or 60k?

Thanks for that Chris. Would such markings be on the engine somewhere or would someone be able to tell from the reg (eg, a car spares place)?

Were there any specific holding / locking tools mentioned can you remember please, or were they something you could fabricate (bolts / turned pins)? I'm guessing this isn't generally so much of an issue when replacing a good cambelt.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. This 4 year cambelt change *could* add another constant into the TCO mix. After a quick Google it looks like a belt kit would be around

60 quid and about the same in labour (assuming the 1.6 hours)? £120 every 4 years so 30 quid a year? That's less than the difference between the tax on the Avensis and Ibiza but negates the advantages a touch (and I think that 2l VVi is cam chain)?
Reply to
T i m

You'll find a sticker on the engine, also in the handbook and probably a sticker in the boot that have the three letter engine code. I think on the data plate too.

Type the reg into euro car parts or similar and see which cambelt kit fits your car - single belt or double.

There are locking tools available, but I did my golf (AXP) engine with two 8mm bolts locking the camshafts.

Reply to
Mark

If the money is that tight then owning any car is not really an option.

Reply to
MrCheerful
[...]

AFAIK, both. The VIN often has details about place of manufacture.

Yep.

Really? 'Cheaper' in this context means 'less well made'.

{Answered by Mark}

Yes, but IIRC different for each engine type.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Ok, I'll try to get to it on Monday.

Single so an AKK engine?

Understood.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

No, it's not as such (it can be found), just you can 'manage what you can measure'.

So, to gain an accurate comparison you need to (at least) try to consider all factors. So, we already have a couple of 'known's' in favour of the Seat (Tax and insurance costs) and now (amongst others) we have a con re the need for a new cam belt at what I think is a fairly small time period. Now the Meriva was (if I remember correctly)

60k miles OR 10 years, which ever came first. Now, we are unlikely to ever do 60 k in it since fitting a new belt (when doing the thermostat) and it *might* last another 10 years. 4 years and no miles is quite a bit different, unless we can count miles and know when the belt was last changed. So, if we say a regular driver could do 40k in 4 years then even if we were to assume a 40k limit it should be on at least it's second belt.

It can be a close thing, even ignoring the convenience factor over public transport, so ... if she works 4 mornings a week that's £40 a week train fares so ~£2000 / year. If she knows she's using the train then she might be able to get a season ticket but with the projected costs of commuting plus any minicabs she might have to hire and the general inconvenience of other stuff, make a 'cheap (to own) car' a money saver (and time saver).

However, with the Avensis costing her £900 / year to insure and £240 or so to TAX, there is less chance of private over public transport being worthwhile, especially when what could be basic stuff (that I could fix) having to be done at a local (to her) garage and generally wiping out any advantages.

And for a young looking 'lady' there are also other considerations when using public transport.

We were about to give her our old Astra when her Fiesta got written off when it got written off whilst parked. That car had nearly cost us

*nothing* , over the £350 we paid for it, some tyres and the cambelt when we changed when we first got it over the ~10 years we owned it (well, a few filters and some oil). Similar with the Rover 218SD, The Sierra Estate and the Kitcar (/1978 Mk 2 Escort).

The only cars we have had in the close family that have cost anything of note are the Avensis (£1000 in under two years) and the Meriva (~£750 over 4 years and that might have been more had I not diagnosed and replaced the ECU myself).

That said, some people pay £250 / month to lease a new car they will never own or buy one from new and loose that / month in depreciation?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Ok.

Handy (more spares available etc).

Possibly.

Ok, so if we are talking a Seat branded wheel bearing that only lasts

20k miles over say 40 even k miles of a VW part, it's only an issue when it's done 20k and that could be 5 years? Or if we are talking say cheap trim, if looked after it may ever be an issue?

Ok, noted.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m
[...]

Oh definitely only things like trim and switches.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

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