2003 Connect. Intermittent wipers coming on randomly on off?

Hi all,

When daughter got her 2003 1.8 TDDi Connect (well, a couple of days after getting it) the wipers would come on and say on 'intermittent' randomly then the switch was in the off position. We replaced the switch and it seemed better but the random-on thing still seems to be happening (albeit less frequently or for such a prolonged period).

The PO said (after we discovered it) that it also happened to him now and again and he just ignored it.

So, as it seems many of these systems are common across other Ford models I wondered if anyone had any idea what might be the cause of such a thing, be it a relay, wiring, connector or the mystical CTM? ;-)

FWIW, the wipers work fine on all other modes (intermittent, slow, fast etc), other than 'off'.

AFAIK, all the other instrumentation works fine as well.

Does anyone know how these systems are wired please? Is 'off' simply holding the intermittent function off? Could it be (is it likely) that such a wire (or connector) could be intermittent? Is the switch just a low level input to some computer thingy (the CTM)?

Are such faults 'known' on this sorta era Ford ... ? I believe the CTM is part of the instruments. If I change the instruments does stuff need re-coding?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m
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Has it got an auto rain sensor?

Reply to
alan_m

I don't *think* so Alan, I think it's too old for that? Where are they when they are fitted and what do they look like (if not completely obvious etc).

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Mine also wipes when put into reverse.

Reply to
Norman Rowing

Yeah, I've seen that sort of thing happen on the Meriva and Corsa but this van doesn't have a bidet or any controls for one that I can see (so I don't think the rear wash wipe has been removed, even though the rear windows have been paneled over etc).

Thanks for the thought though ... you never know when something put forward hits the nail so to speak. ;-)

I have seen talk of a GEM unit that may manage the more fancy things (like automatic wipers) but I don't think this van had got such.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

My '97 BMW has a rain sensor. Mounted at the top of the screen behind the mirror. Not one of BMW's finest achievements. It will indeed sometimes give a random sweep of the screen, if the wiper switch is left in the auto position.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Uncle Google suggests various wiper faults are common on older Connects.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it would appear that the only relay involved is just for intermittent wipe. This would be my first port of call, partly because it's the cheapest, but also seems the most likely. It's in the fascia fuse box, top right.

Next in order of likelihood and cost is the wiper motor; it has a switch inside that can fail. 20UKP for a pattern one.

I don't know what a 'CTM' is. Perhaps you mean BCM? That is, Body Control Module, sometimes referred to as a GEM unit. This is like the ECU for non- engine functions. It is also involved in wiper control. You need to hope it's not that; the total cost of replacement, including the necessary programming to match it to the vehicle, would be in the 600UKP area. It may be possible to repair it at a lower cost.

If it was mine, I would try the relay first, then the wiper motor. If the fault was still there I would probably start hacking the loom to make it stop, then make do with whatever function I was left with. It's a 13 year- old van, after all!

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

[snip]

Just out of interest - how does an auto rain sensor work? How does it know that it's raining?

I have one on a Skoda Octavia Elegance TDI 2 litre year 2008 - it very reliably detects rain, but completely ignores moisture drops lifing off the bonnet when first driving away after overnight dew.

Reply to
Graham J
[...]

A sensor is fitted, usually hidden by the rear view mirror. It shines infra- red light out at an angle, which is reflected back to a receiver within the sensor. Any water on the glass within the sensor area alters the angle of the reflected beam, such that it misses the sensor.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

I'm pretty sure there is nothing like that on this as there isn't even an interior mirror (solid steel bulkhead). ;-)

Not got one of those either (and 'Auto' position). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Find the permanent feed (with ignition on) which goes to the wiper motor (at the motor will probably be easiest) Clip this wire or pull it out of the plug. he wipers will (should) still work, but auto parking will not. If this cures the random wiping then you know that the fault is with the auto park switch inside the wiper motor. If it doesn't stop the random wipes (unlikely IME) you will just need to reconnect the wire you clipped to return to as it all was before. Assuming that clipping the wire and disabling autopark does the job and as you like a little challenge, you will be able to dismantle the motor and tune up the switch, or replace the whole thing if you cannot be bothered.

Reply to
Mrcheerful
[...]

Green/Red on motor terminal 1.

I like to have a go at fixing things, but for 20 quid?

I'd still try the relay first, FWIW.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Yeah, so I saw Chris but I couldn't find anything that pointed to any one 'common' fault. ;-(

I saw that mentioned as well but the guy who changed it didn't see any difference (slightly different fault to be fair).

I'm with you on both of those. ;-)

Yes, I have a picture covering it's position but I've not seen the actual fusebox as yet.

I wasn't sure what could be in a wiper motor that could cause the effect of the intermittent wiper to come on (but I may not have made what happens clear). Intermittently (that we can see so far) the 'Intermittent' mode of the wiper will come on and then stay on like that for some time. From what daughter can relate, 'some time' can be from a couple of cycles of the intermittent wiping to all day over several starts and stops. (She has difficulty being any more precise because 1) she hasn't had the van long enough and 2) she is already 'zoning it out' because she needs to use the van and it's not summer. ;-)

So (thinking out loud), I understand the wiper motors typically have two or three speeds and a self parking mechanism. It's obvious when the main speeds fail (the wipers don't work properly) and when the self parking fails (or becomes intermittent) the wipers will stop anywhere on the screen when you turn them off.

Not too bad then, even if only an experiment. ;-)

Nor do I really, I just keep seeing it mentioned and the suggestion that it's part of the instruments and therefore expensive to replace. ;-(

I also found this which may help (or it my not even be relevant on this model range).

"The generic electronic module (GEM) is equipped on four-wheel drive (control trac system) or two-wheel drive vehicles with power windows."

(So doesn't apply in our case)

"The central timer module (CTM) is equipped only on the two-wheel drive vehicles without power windows."

Which does apply. ;-)

I've had the BCM out of our Meriva and sounds similar yes. I think it's just a Ford specific term?

Agreed.

Ouch. I'm hoping that the Forscan tool (free software and USB OBD interface that I have here but not had chance to try yet) might be able to cover some of that.

If it is required I'd probably first contact the guys who did the Meriva ECU 'remanufacture.

Agreed, that's what we will do (as we have already changed the stalk / switch and felt that made it better but possibly not. At least we can rule that out etc).

Funnily enough, I was thinking along those lines myself earlier and similar to what I did on daughters Corsa when the washers stopped working. It seems the Corsa washer switch causes two relays to put live and earth on either side of the washer motor but the earth provision failed somehow. Long short, I used the two remaining lives (front / rear wash) to feed two relays by the pump that were also wired to the same switched lives (and fuses) and a local earth. It's been working fine ever since and I think someone else has used my solution on their own Corsa. ;-)

As you say, it would be much better (under the circumstances) that the intermittent position was just off and if we can do that easily then all the better. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Sorry MrC, as I have since clarified to Chris, this 'intermittency' is ONLY of the intermittent wipe function when the wipers should be turned off, nothing else. On intermittent and the main speeds ... and for self parking ... the wipers (and washers FWIW) are all fine.

I do indeed (well, most times). ;-)

I think there are many variables at play with all this sort of thing (no particular order):

Is it your vehicle or someone else's. How much is the replacement part. How easy is it to replace the part. How easy is it to get hold of the replacement part (time and difficulty). How much impact is the problem on the usage of the vehicle (/equipment / tool / appliance) and what are the risks of trying to fix the primary fault. What are the chances of any efforts applied being effective.

So, we spent 15 quid or so on a new (pattern) indicator stalk / switch because it was easy to buy (eBay), easy to access and change (3 clips and one plug) and there was little risk of immobilising the vehicle.

I would treat the relay similarly, especially if it is a / the 'timer relay' that *could* be party to this sort of problem. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

disabling auto park will eliminate one common fault at zero expense and little difficulty

Reply to
Mrcheerful

Yeahbut a common fault of what MrC?

Unless I've missed something (not unlikely on the more modern vehicles), removing the self park wire will only stop the self park function from happening won't it (as you have said)?

My point is that the 'intermittent' wiping I'm reporting is not actually intermittent in how / when the wipers themselves are moving on each cycle (Fast, Slow, Intermittent), but the fact that we are seeing the intermittent wipe function both when the wiper switch is turned to the intermittent position (correct) and (randomly) when they are supposed to be turned off (incorrect). When they (randomly) start to do the intermittent wipe thing they can do so consistently for a day or two. When it is happening, the timing of the wiper movement is exactly the same as, and typical of, the 'Intermittent' function of the wipers (eg, ~5s intervals).

My point is that it seems that something is triggering (or not inhibiting) the intermittent wiper mode intermittently and if it was just wiring and a timer relay doing the intermittent role then the faultfinding and solution would probably be easy. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

MrC's point is to determine if the fault being is internal or external to the wiper motor. The self park feed would also be the cause of self-UNparking if the fault is internal to the motor.

Reply to
Scott M

Such as the switch contacts randomly closing when they should be open which will cause the motor to try another autopark cycle.

Reply to
rp

Hi guys and yes, I understand that, but the self-park issue wouldn't accurately and repeatedly *also* add the ~5 second delay you see between wipes on the / this unwanted intermittent cycle (when the wipers should be off) would it? ;-(

My point is these spurious 'wipes' aren't just single wipes coming on now and again but over prolonged periods (sometimes over 'days') and multiple off / on of the van (/ engine / ignition) cycles?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Can you let me know a valid email address? Either hint here, or email me, watching the spam trap.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

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