air conditioning problems

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Although it appears to be a service procedure in the motor trade, industrial and commercial a/c are only ever re-gassed after a repair. How often do modern fridge/freezers get re-gassed?

My last car ran for 10 years without a re-gas. The a/c was as good the day it went as it was when new.

I would be seriously pissed off if I had to have a re-gas on a three year old car!

Look at the prices for the Halfords kit. Bear in mind it would be stupid to attempt it without the optional 20 quid gauge. The costs would be similar, with no guaranty of success.

Kwit-Fit used to offer your money back if a re-gas failed to reduce a/c temperature, but there is no mention of that on their website ATM.

40 quid is a good price, but if it went in with working a/c and came out with none, there's a good chance they broke something.

Chris

How often are fridge-freezers left switched off for months on end?

So you used the aircon regularly, I presume? That's the key. Lack of use causes the seals to dry out, shrink, and leak. Regular use keeps them lubricated.

Trouble is that people have this mental image of aircon just cooling the air, and only being of use in hot weather, forgetting or not knowing that it dries the air, too, and is probably of most use in this country in damp weather for demisting windows.

While I keep mine on auto I doubt it kicked in much over the winter.

Rob

commercial a/c and fridge freezers have hermetically sealed compressors, all the pipe work is solid metal and every join is silver soldered.

cars have old fashioned open air compressors, rubber hoses, many joins that usually rely on o rings to seal them and the conditions of use are terrible compared to a fridge.

I think that car a/c is incredibly reliable considering its design and use limitations.

A vacuum and regas every few years is a very good idea on cars.

the wife's Lexus on auto runs winter and summer, how else would the interior stay at the right humidity? Her system I have vaccummed and re-gassed about

4 years ago, just in case.

Some cars run the a/c every time you put it to full demist and there is no option to not have that happen, and the a/c light does not come on, so the average driver would never know.

on my focus the a/c is just left permanently turned on, works fine at 13 years old and as far as I know has never been touched, if I noticed any change in performance I would immediately fix it.

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Not all of the industrial refrigerant plants I have worked on in the past are like that; mind, some of them used ammonia as a refrigerant, and dated back to the 1930's!

Sorry, but again I disagree. Some plants I've seen had no maintenance for years, had perhaps a 50% duty cycle, and were used 24/7. The conditions were an order of magnitude worse than the average car. (Of course, they would have cost considerably more.)

Yep.

But why? Assuming no leakage, the only potential gain is in replacement of lubricant, which is life-time rated.

The potential for getting things wrong during a re-gas outweighs any minimal advantage IMHO.

Chris

You never set it to demist? The humidity in the car never rose? Because both of those will fire the compressor off.

Ambient conditions.

Ah OK, it was my understanding that the air conditioning - that is to say the dehumidifying and cooling functions - only operate above a certain temperature, say 5C.

Rob

I ran an Avensis for 8 years. It was about 4 years old when I got it. A/C worked perfectly for the whole of its life, and was about the only thing still working really well when I had to throw the car away last October with about 210k on the clock.

Wife has a Corsa - now 9 years old. Several a/c refills during the warranty period - mainly repeat work by the incompetent dealer. Then a refill about every two years since. My tame specialist says they are "designed to leak" rather than "designed not to leak".

I now have a Vectra, low mileage (65k) but 8 years old. Dealer had a/c refilled by his tame specialist when I bought it last November. By this summer's "warm" weather it needed doing again - has been working OK for about 6 weeks.

Summary: vauxhall a/c needs refilling annually.

Different gases are used. HCFC R22 is common in domestic fridges and air-con. HFC R134a in auto air-con.

R134a has small molecules so departs quite a bit faster though hoses than the old CFC R12. As R134a is a superb greenhouse gas it's going to get banned just like R12 was for it's effect on ozone layer. As the R12 replacement RS-24 (R-426A) is a mixture that includes R134a it's also going to get banned.

Everyone that wants to be cool is going to have to get system filled with HC R290.

A CO2 or air filled air con is possible but very much larger than a compact car can fit in. SUV's and buses could be OK.

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I understand that there is or was a possibility of ammonia making a comeback for some industrial refrigeration.

Chris