Astra 1.6 LS Y Reg. ECU problem (It's been a bad month)

Dear all.

I had the engine electronics warning light come on intermittently with about 20% loss of power. No pattern to when it would come on, sometimes every few seconds, sometimes a day or two. It reset when the engine was restarted. Booked into Vauxhall dealer 27/12/06 for diagnosis. No fault found. They cleared the log so a fault code could be identified after it next occured. Following day I returned to dealer after return of fault. They still couldn't rectify the problem after reprogramming the ECU. The car was then booked in for a third time 04/01/07 for full diagnosis. 'You need a new ECU sir, =A3600' We got the car back at 11:00 on Tuesday. It is since a poor starter and on top of that, Yesterday (Wednesday) on my wifes way to work, she noticed the Exhaust emission warning light was on (not flashing). I have now booked the car in again for tomorrow but I can't help think that the dealership have failed me in more ways than one. Firstly, when I originally booked the car in 27/12/06 they only had a skeleton staff and did not do a full diagnosis. This was also the case on the second visit 28/12/06 when they reprogrammed the ECU. Should they have booked me in if they did not have the staff to do the job? Secondly, it's 30 miles, 3/4 hr each way so as of tomorrow, the forth trip that'll be a total of 240 miles plus road tests and a lot of my time. Despite this, they would not budge on the price of the ECU. Thirdly, and this is where I could use your help. If the car has a damaged probe/catalyst/other, is it due to the original fault? In the 'emergency running programme' that the ECU used, does that put excessive demands on other systems i.e. exhaust and emissions?

Regards

Jase.

Reply to
Jase
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"Jase" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... Dear all.

I had the engine electronics warning light come on intermittently with about 20% loss of power. No pattern to when it would come on, sometimes every few seconds, sometimes a day or two. It reset when the engine was restarted. Booked into Vauxhall dealer 27/12/06 for diagnosis. No fault found. They cleared the log so a fault code could be identified after it next occured. Following day I returned to dealer after return of fault. They still couldn't rectify the problem after reprogramming the ECU. The car was then booked in for a third time 04/01/07 for full diagnosis. 'You need a new ECU sir, £600' We got the car back at 11:00 on Tuesday. It is since a poor starter and on top of that, Yesterday (Wednesday) on my wifes way to work, she noticed the Exhaust emission warning light was on (not flashing). I have now booked the car in again for tomorrow but I can't help think that the dealership have failed me in more ways than one. Firstly, when I originally booked the car in 27/12/06 they only had a skeleton staff and did not do a full diagnosis. This was also the case on the second visit 28/12/06 when they reprogrammed the ECU. Should they have booked me in if they did not have the staff to do the job? Secondly, it's 30 miles, 3/4 hr each way so as of tomorrow, the forth trip that'll be a total of 240 miles plus road tests and a lot of my time. Despite this, they would not budge on the price of the ECU. Thirdly, and this is where I could use your help. If the car has a damaged probe/catalyst/other, is it due to the original fault? In the 'emergency running programme' that the ECU used, does that put excessive demands on other systems i.e. exhaust and emissions?

I would suggst you get the ECU independantly checked on it's own before resorting to having a new one. A Co like ATP can check it for around £30. They also do exchange repairs. About half the price of a new one. Mike.

Reply to
Mike G

Cheers Mike However, I have already had the ECU fitted and payed for. My feelings now are to do with how the dealership has dealt with this matter and me as a customer, and, if the new problem is as a result of the original one or the result of having the new ECU fitted?

It's too much of a coincidence to be an independant and unrelated fault! =20 Regards again

Jase

Reply to
Jase

"Jase" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... Dear all.

I had the engine electronics warning light come on intermittently with about 20% loss of power. No pattern to when it would come on, sometimes every few seconds, sometimes a day or two. It reset when the engine was restarted. Booked into Vauxhall dealer 27/12/06 for diagnosis. No fault found. They cleared the log so a fault code could be identified after it next occured. Following day I returned to dealer after return of fault. They still couldn't rectify the problem after reprogramming the ECU. The car was then booked in for a third time 04/01/07 for full diagnosis. 'You need a new ECU sir, £600' We got the car back at 11:00 on Tuesday. It is since a poor starter and on top of that, Yesterday (Wednesday) on my wifes way to work, she noticed the Exhaust emission warning light was on (not flashing). I have now booked the car in again for tomorrow but I can't help think that the dealership have failed me in more ways than one. Firstly, when I originally booked the car in 27/12/06 they only had a skeleton staff and did not do a full diagnosis. This was also the case on the second visit 28/12/06 when they reprogrammed the ECU. Should they have booked me in if they did not have the staff to do the job? Secondly, it's 30 miles, 3/4 hr each way so as of tomorrow, the forth trip that'll be a total of 240 miles plus road tests and a lot of my time. Despite this, they would not budge on the price of the ECU. Thirdly, and this is where I could use your help. If the car has a damaged probe/catalyst/other, is it due to the original fault? In the 'emergency running programme' that the ECU used, does that put excessive demands on other systems i.e. exhaust and emissions?

Couple questions. Have they actually fitted a new ECU? And is this the 1.6 8V engine, with the ECU roughly in front of the battery?

If it is, then the ECU is a common fault on them, but it generally fails completely, so the vehicle doesn't run. And it costs no where near £600. I can't remember the actual price of hand, but it's just as cheap to buy a new one, than it is to send the old one away and get it repaired. Being the cynic that I am, I'd guess the dealer has priced the job to replace several components, as they're too lazy to be bothered spending some time actually diagnosing the fault. And rather than take the risk of the suspect component not curing the problem, they'll just replace the whole lot. I've seen this done a few times, and it seems like a good idea to the dealer/fitter (I'd use technician, but that's too high a status for the idiots that do this), until the problem actually turns out to be a broken wire (it's nice watching them squirm when confronted with explaining to a major customer how they just spent a lot of money without fixing anything).

Off course, if it's one of the 16valve engines, the ECUs for them are more expensive, but I've never seen any fail. I have seen them exhibit signs of failure when certain actuators fail, but they sort themselves out again once the problem has been sorted, and the faults cleared (classic one was the EGR valve used to stick, which would generate a fault code, but for some strange reason the ECU would stop switching power to it, and carrying out the checking procedure would end up with a faulty ECU as the problem. But fitting a new EGR valve, and resetting the ECU would get everything back in working order.)

But I'd personally be finding somewhere else to carry out a diagnostic check.

Reply to
moray

Although not impossible, a fault where limp home mode happens intermittently and clears after a restart is *very* unlikely to be caused by a failed ECU. It is much more likely to be a sensor or wiring problem. That doesn't help you now sadly...

Have you tried to speak directly to the service manager of the dealership?

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Cheers Mike However, I have already had the ECU fitted and payed for. My feelings now are to do with how the dealership has dealt with this matter and me as a customer, and, if the new problem is as a result of the original one or the result of having the new ECU fitted?

It's too much of a coincidence to be an independant and unrelated fault!

It is far too much of a coincidence. I've just replied to your original post, and I'd put a lot of money on the ECU not being the original fault. ECU failures are rare, but since the dealer has already fitted the ECU, I'd be taking the car back and seeing what they find wrong with it this time. And once they do tell you what's wrong (that's if they can find the actual problem, not just picking the most expensive item on the list of possibilities), asking for the number for vauxhall customer services so you can lodge a complaint will have them really squirming.

Reply to
moray

Yes

It's the 16 valve.

That sounds very likely. You're not the only person to suggest this.

It is booked in again for tomorrow morning (more time of work) and I will see what they have to say for themselves

Jase

Reply to
Jase

Will do so tomorrow! Thanks for your comments

Reply to
Jase

Yes

It's the 16 valve.

That sounds very likely. You're not the only person to suggest this.

It is booked in again for tomorrow morning (more time of work) and I will see what they have to say for themselves

Jase

Let us know what they say, and try and find out what fault codes are stored.

Reply to
moray

Cheers Mike However, I have already had the ECU fitted and payed for. My feelings now are to do with how the dealership has dealt with this matter and me as a customer, and, if the new problem is as a result of the original one or the result of having the new ECU fitted?

If it's not too late, ask them to let you have the ECU they removed. I'm assuming that being a main dealer it will not have been replaced on an exchange basis. You could then have it checked, and if it is OK it'll help in any dispute about their competence and billing. If nothing else, if it is OK it'll be saleable.

According to ATP, many ECU's are replaced unnecessarily. Some ECU 'faults' are sinply due to dirty contacts on the main plug. Removing, cleaning, and replacing the plug can often cure 'faults'. It's always a good idea to ask for the old parts when new ones are fitted. It's an indication that new parts were actually fitted and gives you a chance to check whether they were actually required.

It's too much of a coincidence to be an independant and unrelated fault!

Does seem unlikely. Mike.

Reply to
Mike G

Dear all.

I thought I had better update you.

On the 11th the car was booked in. The Exhaust Emission light went 'off'' at 4:00pm. Stangely(?) an intermittent fault again.

12th. Dropped car off 1st thing. Eventually got workshop foreman on the phone at 5:30pm. He said that the 'new' fault causing the Exhaust Emission light to come on is........ the Engine Coolant Module! How much? Another =A3202. I asked how much of this was labour and then he said he would speak to manager to do a better price. Hmmmm On the 13th he gave me a (labour free) price of =A389 I stressed that I was not convinced it was the ECU as the original fault. I put to him many views on this matter, some from the group (thanks again) and I asked if the Engine Coolant Module was even connected with the Exhaust Emission system. 'They're all connected' was the reply. Also, 'Do you still have the old ECU?' 'Will find out'. We'll see, but I suspect we all know the answer.

This is the best bit so far. When I asked if it was possible for the two faults to be connected, he said 'not sure' and when I reminded him that the first sign of a problem (after the new ECU was fitted) was only a few minutes after we got the car back HIS words were.....'Too coinicidental' I'm now expecting a call from the service manager to discuss further.

Again your views/experience/questions/advice would be most welcome.

Regards for now

Jase.

Reply to
Jase

Hi Chris and Group guru's

Firstly. thanks for your help. Secondly, I wondered if I could ask you if you would let me know your experience on this matter. I have other sources of experiences, in the trade, and I would like to be able to indicate the level of expertise sourced from the group. I hope you don't feel this too cheeky or too personal.

Cheers

Jase

Reply to
Jase

Dear all.

I thought I had better update you.

On the 11th the car was booked in. The Exhaust Emission light went 'off'' at 4:00pm. Stangely(?) an intermittent fault again.

12th. Dropped car off 1st thing. Eventually got workshop foreman on the phone at 5:30pm. He said that the 'new' fault causing the Exhaust Emission light to come on is........ the Engine Coolant Module! How much? Another £202. I asked how much of this was labour and then he said he would speak to manager to do a better price. Hmmmm On the 13th he gave me a (labour free) price of £89 I stressed that I was not convinced it was the ECU as the original fault. I put to him many views on this matter, some from the group (thanks again) and I asked if the Engine Coolant Module was even connected with the Exhaust Emission system. 'They're all connected' was the reply. Also, 'Do you still have the old ECU?' 'Will find out'. We'll see, but I suspect we all know the answer.

This is the best bit so far. When I asked if it was possible for the two faults to be connected, he said 'not sure' and when I reminded him that the first sign of a problem (after the new ECU was fitted) was only a few minutes after we got the car back HIS words were.....'Too coinicidental' I'm now expecting a call from the service manager to discuss further.

Again your views/experience/questions/advice would be most welcome.

Regards for now

Ah, had forgotten these had that stupid engine cooling module (located between the bumper, and ns/f wheel, with main cause of failure being corrosion due to water ingress..) The cooling modules were only fitted to certain models (mainly diesels, and certain petrols with aircon IIRC), and it's sole purpose is to control the cooling fans, depending on engine temp, and what the aircon was doing (hammer to crack a peanut job!). Failure did cause the EML (engine managment light) to come on. Generally failure would cause the module to go into a back-up mode, but what it done all depended on what pins/printed circuit tracks had disintegrated due to corrosion. I'm currently trying to think if the coolant temp sensor was connected direct to the Engine, or Coolant module (I've got a feeling it was connected to the cooling module, and the Engine got the signal via the coolant module -I'll have to dig out a wiring diagram and check that)

But certainly it sounds like whoever done the first diagnostic, didn't do it properly. You did say they were short staffed, so I'm guessing the electrician was on holiday, and somebody who's not had much clue has done the original diagnostic, and now that the electrician has looked at the car, they've quickly realised that the original diagnostic was wrong. And that would explain why they've essentially priced the cooling module at cost price.

Just need to wait and see what the Service Manager comes out with.

As for my experience. I've worked for a fleet company for the past 8 years, diagnosing and repairing most brands of vehicles, but predominently Ford and Vauxhall (i get full access to ford and vauxhall techincal and diagnostics)

Reply to
moray

That's great. I spoke at length with the Service Manager yesterday. He assured me that the job had been done in an entirely professional manner. He said it was deffinately the old ECU as the original problem. I put to him the scenario in the earlier post from yourself about the EGR valve and posed the question 'could the Engine Coolant Module generate a fault code that would trick the ECU into indicating itself as the fault?' He said the Engine Coolant Module probably couldn't trick the ECU into thinking it was at fault, but was 'not sure'. They do still have the old ECU. When asked, he agreed my concerns were genuine and my points were valid. I proposed the Engine Coolant Module was fitted and the car was tested over a week or 100 miles say, The car was given a lengthy test last night after ECM was fitted, and also this morning. On discussion this morning all seems well. ECM duly paid for and car being dropped off this morning. I have requested

- The old ECU

- All the fault codes

- Test protocols (offered)

- Anything else.

I'll keep you posted!

Jase.

Reply to
Jase

That's great. I spoke at length with the Service Manager yesterday. He assured me that the job had been done in an entirely professional manner. He said it was deffinately the old ECU as the original problem. I put to him the scenario in the earlier post from yourself about the EGR valve and posed the question 'could the Engine Coolant Module generate a fault code that would trick the ECU into indicating itself as the fault?' He said the Engine Coolant Module probably couldn't trick the ECU into thinking it was at fault, but was 'not sure'. They do still have the old ECU. When asked, he agreed my concerns were genuine and my points were valid. I proposed the Engine Coolant Module was fitted and the car was tested over a week or 100 miles say, The car was given a lengthy test last night after ECM was fitted, and also this morning. On discussion this morning all seems well. ECM duly paid for and car being dropped off this morning. I have requested

- The old ECU

- All the fault codes

- Test protocols (offered)

- Anything else.

I'll keep you posted!

Jase.

Fault codes + Test Protocols would be nice to see. If you could scan a copy, I'd soon rattle them through vauxhall tis, and see exactly what they tested.

Reply to
moray

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