Brake for Rover 218SD

As a DIY job for someone with no expertise and, I'm assuming, no appropriate
tools or facilities, it's best avoided.

£110 + £20 is very cheap, much of that price will be the cost of the parts
so there wouldn't be much saving even if you did do it yourself.  Get your
local mechanic to do it and save a lot of heartache.


--
Remove Xs to reply direct

I'd get him to check them first anyway, the national centres are well
renowned for 'finding' jobs to do.

FWIW, Nationwide are damned expensive for what amounts to non-genuine
parts being fitted. I could almost do you that job at our main dealer
for that price - on a Honda too. Indeed, check the Rover dealer too, you
can't always assume the dealer is going to be more expensive. We
certainly have a policy of trying to price match, but it's more often
than not now that we don't need to when comparing to the likes of
Halfords and Kwik-Fit anyway.

Our local Halfords quoted £7 more to fit brake pads than us, and
Kwik-Fit wanted £48 more to fit a Bridgestone to a Civic Type R.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

He's absolutely right - but a main dealer will still be more than £110.

--
Remove Xs to reply direct

Indeed they will, but you need to understand what kind of value you are
getting.

IME there is no such thing as a free lunch, and cheaper repairs are
often just that, especially with jobs such as this where the majority of
the saving is in the parts cost. You can only be buying inferior parts
at that kind of price difference. I have often seen good quality pattern
parts being only a little cheaper, or even sometimes more expensive,
than genuine parts.

If you're getting brakes repaired for less than half the price I would
certainly question the quality fo the parts being used.

The most you could save on the labour would be about £35 - unless the
labour is really cheap.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

Hmm. What do you make of a main dealer - BMW - charging over 12 quid a
litre for bulk oil? And then 110+ quid an hour for labour?

I know I saved over 500 quid by changing the disks and pads myself - using
OEM quality from Eurocarparts. Took less than a day including getting the
bits.

 One way or another, garage prices are outrageous.

Have you seen the latest Which report on garage servicing? Still as poor
as ever.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Yup, and I can name an Alfa dealer that was doing that 4 years ago.


Yes, or the workmanship is crap, but not everywhere.


No, I don't subscribe to Which, I have read some of them and found them
to be lacking in any kind of accuracy.

However, I do appreciate that the trade as a whole does not have a good
reputation, but IME, it's no worse than any other trade. It would be my
guess that there are far more cowboys in the building trade for example.

You certainly cannot assume that all main dealers will rip you off
either. I can assure you that when you come into mine we will always try
to be competitive on price. Indeed we have an attitute that might
surprise you. We will do a job for minimal profit, the theory being that
minimal profit is better than none at all. Of course it would be
commercial suicide to not try to maximise your profits though. You have
to offer a service that gives the customer a sense of value.

For sure a small independent is not going to have anything like the
overheads that a main dealer is. For a start a main dealer has to meet
minimum standards set by the manufacturer, as well as cover the costs of
a larger site. This has been made worse by the block exemption rules now
in force.

In some ways it's the customers that are to blame, they want cheaper
cars and more freedom to purchase, but in doing so they have made it
more expensive for all suppliers, and inevitably will increase the costs
to the dealer. This has to be met from somewhere.

Indeed, there is nothing stopping an independent becoming an authorised
agent for a maufacturer, but they have to meet the minimum standards.

All I'm saying is that there are some dealers that are genuinely
attempting to give a good and value service, so don't go jumping down my
throat when I suggest trying them.

I have to add that I have worked in a number of dealerships and
franchises, and have not seen the general bad service you all spout on
about. Indeed I see many of the dealers trying to put right what
incompetent DIY'ers and independents have done. There have been bad
mechanics and bad managers, but no blatant intent to rip off the
punters.

Mind you, I have my own standards of work, and I wouldn't take a job
where I thought such working practices were being used - I have turned
down a few job offers like this.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

Strange the way those who don't subscribe to it always seem to say this.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to read the article in full first. And
even if they had been 'inaccurate' in some way, it makes absolutely no
difference to the pattern established over the years they've been doing
the same sort of checks.


There may well be in terms of one man traders, or small firms, but the big
names? Nothing would stay up for more than a week if they were to the same
standard...


I hope your place really is as good, and that you prosper, then. It should
be easy given the appalling standard. Now if only you dealt in BMW...


I can see that, but grossing up on parts while still charging a king's
ransom in labour is really taking the p**s.


No excuse for the dishonesty and shoddy work that is my main complaint,
though.  Price is one thing, but you'd at least expect a reasonable
standard of work.


I'll bet there's some cosy little arrangement to stop competition within
an area.


Ok - but I've yet to find one.

The Which owners survey certainly highlighted the differences in owner's
opinions of their dealers - some makes came out very much better than
others. And broadly about the same as you read here, etc.


I really can't think I'm one in a thousand. Every time I have a service
done, something major is missed - but charged for. And this with three
different dealers in as many years. Oh - and my only checking or noticing
the obvious things - I can hardly be expected to have the oil etc analysed
to see if they really have changed it.


Good for you. If only more were like you.

--
*No sentence fragments *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Actually I did subscribe, and had every intention of keeping up the
subscription. I took up one of their free trial offers, and in the three
issues I got, I found so many discrepancies and bits of poor advice that
I cancelled it.


Erm. I've certainly seen some of the new houses that have been built in
the last few years, and they are not built to any great standard.


I can guarantee that we don't gross up parts as much as your beloved
independents do.


Absolutely. I wasn't suggesting that shoddy work was acceptable, I was
simply offering a reason for the rising prices.


Right, so the real opinions of the customers is about their product not
the dealer. This is one of the biggest problems I see with any survey,
the customers experience of the product is often reflected in their
opinion of the dealers, although the dealers may not actually be any
different.

I have so often asked customers why they marked us down on their survey,
and so often it has been simply because their expectations of the
product were not met.


I haven't worked anywhere in 24 years where they charged for fitting
parts that weren't fitted. But then I normally work at dealers that have
been long established and work on reputation.


There are more than you have obviously found. In all the garages I have
worked the poor workers are normally discovered and dealt with. The
company I work for now actively seek such skills.

Strangely enough I could almost have typed your reply for you.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

Not so at all. Various features of the cars and dealers were marked
separately. And what was even more telling was whether they'd recommend
the car to a friend.

Couple of years back, Jaguar got all uppity over Which members 'headline'
reports of poorer than average reliability. They blustered on about small
samples - although 60 odd will still give a trend.
 
 But if they'd read the full article, they'd have discovered that the Jag
Owners questioned were much more happy with their cars than the owners of
some other more reliable makes - and would happily recommend them to their
friends.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Er, yes, that's the point I'm making. What I'm saying is that the
product experience does relate to how the customer feels about the
dealers, which is what we're talking about here.

Not one of your three paragraphs above mention anything about dealer
satisfaction. In all the cases of poor reliability of the product, how
were the dealers marked?

IME the quality of the product can often reflect in the experience you
get at the dealer. If you're dealing with a crap product from the start,
there's not a lot a dealer can do to fix that.

Is this is a case of fix the cause, not the symptom? It's certainly
somethign I have come to believe having worked for varying qualities of
product.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

In the Jaguar case, fairly satisfied IIRC. Had to be for someone to
recommend a car to a friend, if you think about it.

--
*If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Actually I misread that bit, apologies.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

Well, I'm overall pretty satisfied with my BMW - not to say it's been
perfect reliability wise, but OK. But all three dealers I've used have
been rubbish. And expensive. Nor can I believe it's just me.

--
*Sorry, I don't date outside my species.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Indeed, and that's not the first I've heard that from BMW
dealers/products either.

--
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com

My problem with Which is that their ideas are biased towards their
rather middle class (generally) readership. They rarely test the goods
I'm interested in, and their comments on reliability are of little use
to me as I'm likely to be maintaining things myself. I've not looked for
a while, but you don't see useful things like "How easy it is to change
the belt and brushes" on a washing machine review.

Practical Classics have a more - er - practical view. If they review MIG
welders they'll tell you how much a spare liner is and the chances are
someone will have taken it apart to see how well made it is.

--
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

It's not aimed at the enthusiast. Of course I read the reviews of things
I'm really interested in, and may take note of them, but don't treat it as
gospel. An enthusiast has totally different parameters than the 'average'
person, and may be expected to read the specialised press. But with things
like cameras, cars and hi-fi etc, enthusiasts never agree with which is
'best' so how could Which possibly satisfy all of them?

 But for things I just want to work well, last well, and be good value for
money - washing machines, vacuum cleaners etc I'll invariably choose their
best buy. And never once been disappointed.


Funny thing is I bought my SIP on their recommendation, and plenty others
have said it's crap. The speed control certainly is. And the 'regulator'.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack?  What is a whack? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'd have recommended a Clarke. :-)
I have a 100E at home, and use a 120E at work.
Baically both the same machine apart from the output.
The speed controls work well, apart from being a little too sensitive.
The regulator AFAIK, is the same as that supplied with many of the 'home'
welders. Works OK though.
Mike.

I used to have a 150 which was OK.

Anyone any idea what the Ferm welders Screwifx sell are like?

--
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

Never seen em.
The screwfix website is not open for online orders at the mo, so the stock
pages are unavailable, and my catologue is at work.
IME though the Ferm stuff seems good value.
I have a Ferm 24v rechargeable hand drill, heatgun, 120mm angle grinder, and
a wood saw. The hand held powered cutting wheel type, dunno what they're
called. :-)
Anyway they all seem reasonably well made. Comparable with B&D IMO.
Mike.