Only if you don't prime the filter, run a small amount into the cylinders if the engine has been left for a considerable time the oil will have all drained to the sump anyway in most bikes .
The beauty of most bikes you can lay them on their sides which sloshes the oil about
I disagree , you need to drain the crap out of it first, run flushing oil through it run the engine drain and refill .
Last thing you want to do is run all the crap and crud through the oil ways if the bikes been standing for a long period
Flushing oil has been deprecated by all major manufacturers for years; it does more harm than good, and is totally unnecessary when using modern oils.
Where will the 'crap and crud' have come from? It won't have been produced whilst the vehicle was unused, and any that is already there will have been trapped in the filter.
Strange that, my local ford dealer recommends engine flush
The crap and crud will be from condensation, oxidization the natural decay of the oil plus possibly spores .plus your likely to still have junk left over from manufacture. Its also possible the filter may have decayed over time depending on its construction, the o rings will certainly be on the way out. Its been standing for 4 years so its possible the clutch plates may have started to break down, they will certainly be stuck together.
Infact i would probably flush it out with diesel or paraffin first, filling it to the brim and let it soak, drain flush out drain flush out fill run then drain and refill .
Sometimes the dealer actually knows something: A lady I know had a very low mileage Corsa (20,000 in 4 years) Vauxhall main dealer said that it needed a cam belt kit and water pump at the 4 year service, she refused and took it to an independent, they changed the oil and normal bits and left the cam belt. At 6 years old the water pump bearings failed and took the belt and all the valves out. There was absolutely no warning and when dismantled the pump did not even leak in the slightest. I talked to a Vauxhall tech about this and he said it was well known in Vauxhall circles that very low mileage corsa lumps did exactly that, which was why they say to change the belt and pump at 4 years, completely regardless of mileage or usage pattern.
Apart from the fact that we're talking about an automatic, there are virtually no cars with clutches in contact with the engine oil. Bikes, yes. Cars, no.
(FWIW, as far as "start first?" goes, the oil will have long since drained from the engine anyway, so I'd drain and refill before trying to start, then get it up to temp, and drain/refill again. Cheap oil and a filter are cheap.)
Um, VW Touran with DSG gearbox uses wet plate clutches. I suspect most of the higher torque DSG auto incarnations do too. The small petrol engined DSG gearboxed cars use dry clutches.
We asked Ford for its view of after-market engine flush products. It said: ?Do not use oil additives or other engine treatments. Under certain conditions, they could damage the engine. If you do use one and there is a subsequent engine problem, your warranty will no longer be valid.?
Similar cautionary notes have been printed in the handbook of every vehicle I have owned for perhaps 25 years.
Plenty of other evidence if you care to ask Uncle Google.
In the 'Olden Days' when only mineral oil was available, engines were lightly stressed, and in the main over-engineered. They ran all their life slightly rich because there was no way of accurately determining or supplying the correct air/fuel ratio. The alternative, running lean, would have destroyed the engine. Consequently they carboned up, contaminating the oil. They had crude cooling systems, so would run a bit too hot in traffic, but spent most of their lives over-cooled so condensation was another contaminant. In a neglected engine, a flush may have done some good, but wouldn't do any harm.
Modern engines are computer designed to be as lightly made as possible. The power outputs per litre of displacement are much higher, yet everything is much smaller. (Have a look at Ford's latest 1 litre engine - 100bhp, but the footprint of a sheet of A4!) Cam timing is much wilder, and valve springs much stronger. Consequently, bearing surfaces carry heavier loads, yet wear rates are actually reduced due to the sophistication of the modern oils. Control systems are much more clever, and keep the air/fuel ratio at optimum values. Engine temperature is much more closely controlled, so they can consistently run hotter all the time.
The result of these changes are that modern engines simply don't get dirty inside. I have seen strip-downs of 100k plus units that look brand new inside. So from the POV of need, flushing is a waste of time.
With modern engine design being much closer to what is actually needed, oilways are much smaller. There also more of them with OHC designs.
From the POV of safety, when running for the 10 or so minutes needed to complete a flush, the engine is running with those highly stressed surfaces inadequately lubricated. Excessive wear is likely. Also, should any foreign material become dislodged, it is much more likely to block the smaller oilways.
Not strange at all. He is a Ford dealer.
If he thought you would be prepared to pay for it, he would offer to perform the mysterious Wutu Dance of Nianduhu Village around your vehicle to drive away the evil spirits.
[...]
So would I 50 years ago when I first started getting grease under my fingernails. To do so now is not only totally unnecessary, but likely to cause long-term damage.
So why risk expensive damage to the metal by using techniques only appropriate in the last century?
I've started cars that have been left standing for extended periods, and the oil pressure light always goes out straight away. That's rarely the case after an oil change.
I agree entirely that if you want to flush, doing it with the correct normal lubricant for the vehicle rather than a flushing oil is safer.
More fool you for believing a dealer. If the vehicle needs, say, an oil change every year if under a certain mileage, are you saying it must then be changed four times if the vehicle is unused for 4 years?
After market treatments possibly, stand alone flushing oil is not an aftermarket treatment .
Vaxuall offer a similar service too
Correct, servicing to the correct specifications as laid down by ford the manufacturers of the vehicle
They certainly wouldn't perform a service that could damage the engine or void the warranty that would be commercial suicide and leave ford open to substantial claims for damages
It's certainly not mentioned in the service schedule for any Ford I've ever seen. It's not listed as a Ford product in any Ford list of approved lubricants. No list of recommended alternative lubricants in any Ford handbook I've seen even mentions flushing oil.
That, to me, makes it 'after-market'.
No they don't. A Vauxhall *dealer* might.
Care to point to any evidence that Ford (the manufacturer) have a specification for engine flushing oil? Or any evidence that engine flushing is in the service schedule for any of its vehicles?
You really don't understand how the motor industry works.
If you were mug enough to pay for an 'engine flush', there is only an outside chance that it would be done, and even then it would not be run for the amount of time needed to do anything.
If at a later date an engine problem developed that might or might not be a result of using flushing oil, what do you think would happen?
Well if you consider that it might include every 2 litre diesel (and bigger) and maybe bigger petrol engined vehicles in the VAG group with DSG gearboxes, that could be quite a lot actually. From experience, I can only speak for my old Touran.
It's logical that certain things may need changing on a time basis regardless of mileage. Not the same as saying it needs all the servicing it would have had if driven.
You are joking, I assume? Going back to post WW2 days when motoring really took off, most cars would need a replacement engine (or a total overhaul) in their (short) lifetime. Many more than one. A decent life for an engine might be 70,000 miles then - many a lot less.
VAG have about 20% market share in the UK. What do you think we're talking about? Should we be bold and say a whole third of the cars they sell here? Probably optimistic, but let's go for it.
So that's 6.5% of all new cars sold in the UK. 93.5% don't.
Yep, I think we can call that "a very small minority".
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