Car Repair Bill $$$$$

Hi all

My cousins boy (19) bought himself a Ford Puma a few weeks ago. Like most youngsters, he's not yet got back the brains he was born with and within a few days he's smacked into one of those speed bump things that narrow the road with small traffic islands! So, the front alloy wheel was bust and both tyres knackered on the nearside. Then, gawd bless his cotton socks, he parked the car up and walked home, and somewhere between the car and his home lies his keys!!! So, me being the one that normally sorts out his c*ck-ups, I told him this was down to him and it was his problem to sort out this time. Anyway, he gets it towed to a main Ford dealer for the repairs. They wouldn't give him a price or any sort of quote but they said they'd sort it out for him and he OK'ed the work. Now he's just picked it up today, and the bill he's got took my breathe away. I'm not bothered too much about the price they've charged for the new parts, although as far as I was concerned it only need one alloy wheel and two tyres and they'd put on two and two! But they've charged him 13hrs labour at £70+ plus an hour to change the wheels, two door lock and the ignition! I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the bill. They said to him that it had taken them all day to even get into the car... Which, IMHO, isn't his fault if they're too stupid to drill the locks or even break a window.. Even that would be cheaper than the labour costs. But surly Ford must have a database of some sort that they can use to get the correct key. To me this is a rip off and I'm sorry now I'd left it to him to teach him a lesson. Have you any advice on how I'd go about complaining about this labour charge and who to?

Many Thanks Nick

Reply to
Nick
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Ford dealers can access the ford database and get the original key number. This would only fail if the locks had been changed for some reason. The new keys would have to be programmed to the immoboliser, but even that takes

1hour at the most. Even if the locks were replaced, then the steering column I would guess would take 1 - 2 hours, and each door lock an hour each at the most. The part I would query most is the ignition lock. To remove the ignition lock, requires it to be turned to position 1, or it has to be destructively removed, which normally results in the steering column being damaged. The only way to confirm that they've replaced the door locks, is to strip the inside off the door, and check to see if the security covers are still there, or there is evidence that they've recently been sutck back on.

As for the alloys, without the old ones, there's not much you can prove.

13hrs is very high for what has been done. Personally, if a dealer had given me a bill for that amount of time, I would off been wanting a lot of answers, especially from the manager.
Reply to
Moray Cuthill

Hi, thanks for your reply, that's what I was hoping to hear. The price that they'd charged for the parts was I suppose to be expected, and I've not really got any complaints on that score. I reckoned that they'd charge him the max 5hrs and that would bordering on taking the Mickey! But it's the 13hrs labour that I think is ridiculous, and I'm glad you have confirmed my feeling on that. Do you know where I could find out any more about the Ford database, if only the name of it, so I can hit the manager with it when I phone him up to complain?

With Thanks Nick

change

destructively

damaged.

Reply to
Nick

The ford database is accessed using a program called OASIS. All dealers have access to it.

Personally, I would not at all be surprised if they'd just cut new keys + programmed them. It would certainly not be the first time I've heard of ford dealers doing such things. Just out of curiousity, you say they only replaced 2 locks. I thought Pumas had 3 door locks (2 front doors + boot)?

From experience if you go into alot of dealers (especially large franchise ones) and you appear to be unknowledgable, they will quite frankly take you for a ride. I've seen plenty cases of this, and have even seen some dealers having to answer to the manufacturers. I could tell you many stories involving several makes of vehicles.

Reply to
Moray Cuthill

Well it's like I said, this time I left him to it because I thought I'd teach him a lesson rather than pick up the pieces like I normally do! And he's not the brightest of lads, and very laid back, so I'm pretty sure now that when he walked in to the garage they read "Muppet" on his head! As for the boot lock, at the moment I can't remember if they changed it or not, I haven't got the bill at hand but I also can't remember seeing any mention of the boot lock which may therefore give me some extra ammo! I'll keep you inform how this works out. Its really got me rattled this so I'm going to do some rattling myself now at Fords.. I may even drive up to the managers office playing "Wonderwall" at full blast on my stereo! So big thanks for the "OASIS" info, that gives me a lot more now to go on. I'll let you know how I go on in the next few days!

Cheers Nick

dealers have

thought Pumas

Reply to
Nick

Ask them why it took them their (presumably) Ford trained fitters all day to get into a car when an AA patrol gay (or gal) can do it in about 30 seconds...

Tell them you'll pay for three hours labour as a 'gesture of good will'; any more and you'll be letting trading standards do the maths!

Darren

Reply to
Darren Jarvis

Darren Jarvis ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

"I'm the only AA patrol in the village, you know"

Reply to
Adrian

I've just been reading up on the trading standards stuff. It seems that under the supply of goods act 1982, the work should be carried out at "reasonable cost" unless, a price has already been agreed. So I've just spoken to my Muppet of a cousin to find out what was said.. Apparently, when the car was towed to the Ford garage everybody assumed that because the front wheel had taken such a bash that two of the three spokes were broke. So it was assumed that the steering rack at the very least would need replacing and there may also be other suspension damage. So with that in mind, they mentioned a figure of £1500 It turns out that once the new wheels and tyres were put on the car, the wheels were unbelievably still pointing in the right direction! The tracking was checked but needed no adjustment! But still they charged him the figure of £1500 I said earlier that they'd charged him for 13hrs labour, it fact, it was 10.5hrs labour! They told him on collection that the job had taken 13hrs but they'd very kindly given him a discount :-) So the total labour cost was £776.00 just to change the 3 locks and the ignition! He's got a separate bill from "Rapid Fit" for the tyres, wheels and tracking! Just out of interest, can any of you guys think of an example of the kind of work, maybe something like a major engine or gearbox repair, that would take around the 10.5hrs labour? Just something I could use as an example while I'm tearing off the service managers head!

Thanks Nick

"Darren Jarvis" wrote in message news:uDeid.676$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

Reply to
Nick

hmmm...10.5 hours could replace 2 clutches swap a complete engine remove + completely dismantle engine rebuild + install new engine

There's not really that many jobs that take that long.

Even 10.5 hrs is a bloody long time to change 3 locks + ignition. Personally, I'd be looking for evidence that the locks have actually been changed. It seems very odd that they've changed all the locks, but then again they could justify it on 'security' grounds. But then again, once the new keys had been programmed, the old keys would effectivley be rendered useless (they could still be used to gain entry to the car). Also, if somebody found the keys, they're not exaclty going to try them in every ford. In the worst case, they could of stripped one lock to get the key number, but that would probably involve them using more than two brain cells.

Checking the tracking would be standard, if he had done that much damage to the alloy. Also insepcting the necessary suspension components would be recommended, as they're not exactly designed to take such abuse.

Reply to
Moray Cuthill

My brother hit a pothole in his Y reg Puma and bust an alloy. The new alloy was about £90 from Rapid Fit and a pair of their Armstrong tyres (Pirelli budgets) were about £70 for both. I thought that was reasonable enough. Is that in line with the parts costs in this case?

The charge levied on any repair work has to be reasonable as you have discovered from your research, this bill clearly needs explanation from the service manager. Has he paid it yet? Please name the Ford dealer!

Reply to
Doctor D

Is it just me, or is this yet another reason while alloys are a complete waste of money. Not only do they cost more, look silly, and corrode, but they break when they hit a pot hole. What's wrong with steel?

Reply to
Steve Burt

Some steel wheels are also lighter than the ally version !! But usually the alloy wheel is lighter, which reduces unsprung weight, which on a high performance car is very important, not so important on a road car though mrcheerful

Reply to
mrcheerful

Hi, the price of the alloys and tyres was quite reasonable! But the price they charged for the locks and stuff came to £600 and they charged the £776 labour on top of that! Of the top of my head, I think the rapid fit bill was £96 per wheel, which isn't bad. The total bill for tryes, alloys, whatever they did or didn't do with the locks and ignition and the labour was £1462.21 Not sure if I should just come out and mention the name of the garage outright, but. Think of the name of the large area of water between us and the US of A! Then think of a Cheshire town where a lot of famous premiership footballers live as well as Sir Taggart of Old Trafford! He did pay the bill, but it most certainly could be argued that it was paid in protest. Let's just say that not only did the poor lad get hit with such a big bill, he also had to drag his Mother out of the garage kicking and screaming as she was the one who'd given him a lift down to pick the car up!

Nick

Reply to
Nick

He _paid_ the bill? :-/

Reply to
DervMan

Having read the thread, it does seem rather a rip off, but since he's paid, things are going to be harder.

Unfortunately, since they said, "oh about £1,500" and the bill was about that, well... darn...

Reply to
DervMan

DervMan wrote on Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:30:00 -0000:

Yeah, but if they said "Well, the engine might have gone, so it'll be about two grand", then later you come back and they said "It was the spark plugs, that'll be two grand", you wouldn't be too happy.

Reply to
David Taylor

That's about right as I understand things from reading the terms of the "Supply of goods act" He had no choice really but to pay as they wouldn't have allowed the car to be released and further charges,and him being without a vehicle, would have resulted from this! The terms state that as long as you pay under protest, a nineteen year old having to drag his Mother out of the garage kicking and screaming would certainly fit that description, then you're still within your right to complain! I'm compiling a letter of complaint at this moment in time on behave of my halfwit cousin, and if any of you guys could think of any input I'd be grateful. Where I'm at at the moment, I've wrote a letter addressed to the service manager detailing the complaint that I believe the labour charge was excessive and all the reasons why Blah Blah Blah.. And demanding that they provide me with a detailed account of the 10.5hrs that they've charge, a full breakdown if you like. I've got the invoice in front of me at the moment and there is no mention of any trade affiliations or complaints procedure associated with this garage! Have any of you guys got any idea where I can find out about any sort of trade associations that a Ford dealer would or maybe not, be affiliated with, that I can send copies of the invoice to for an independent assessment of this case?

09:30:00 -0000:
Reply to
Nick

First step is to contact the dealer. If they don't provide a satisfactory response, then you have to complain to ford. They will then look at the case, and if they see necessary, will investigate. Ford's details courtesy of their website are --

For any customer assistance on your existing product or service provided by Ford Motor Company, please contact The Customer Relationship Centre on: Telephone: 0845 841 1111

Or by post at:

Customer Relationship Centre P.O. Box 25149 Glasgow G2 4XF

Reply to
Moray Cuthill

You beat me to it - their helpline is actually quite good. :)

Reply to
DervMan

satisfactory

Reply to
David Hughes

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