"Dangerous" Wheels on a 95/N Ford Fiesta?

dangerous"..."the

suggestions?

These are Orion Ghia Injection alloys (series 2 Orion)

Can't see how these could be wrong - they are standard Ford stud pattern.

They might be off an Orion or Escort etc and the offset might be wrong. This could lead to the wheel rubbing on things at full lock. Things may include brake lines. The suspension geometry would also be altered. If there's a Fiesta or Ford owners club, try getting in touch with them as they'll most likely know what car they came off. You could also try the Ford dealer's parts dept and ask them to check the part numbers to see what car they should be on.

TBH those wheels are fairly knackered, need £40 - £50 each spending on them to get them right again. I'd be tempted to get a set of steel wheels for £20 if those are the wrong wheels.

They're right. They never did come on a Fiesta MkIII / IV. Or any other Fiesta for that matter.

They're from a MkII Ford Orion Ghia Injection.

I'm pretty sure that they're going to be the right size / offset / stud pattern for the car - but it _is_ possible they've been fitted with the wrong studs. However, they are larger than the original (steel) Fiesta wheels - ISTR that the MkIII / IV Fiesta came with 13" wheels, probably with 155/70 tyres - the tyres you have fitted are 185/60HR14.

Anyway - they are, as Doki has said, pretty knackered, so it would be worth changing them anyway. The Quartz originally came with a set of standard steel wheels - which are cheap enough to buy from an breakers.

In addition to possible rubbing at full lock the nuts could be wrong. Take a nut off and look at both the nut and the hole in the wheel. There are two types of nut. One has a chamfer on it and requires a steel insert in the alloy wheel with a matching chamfer. The other has a 'top hat' on it, this fits into the hole on the wheel so the 'brim' acts as a wide washer. It should be very obvious if a top hat type nut is on a wheel with a chamfer, the brim will stand proud but it is not immediately visible when chamfered nuts are on a wheel intended for 'top hat' nuts, but looking at the hole in the wheel the gap round the stud will be about 3mm (1/8th in) wide all round.

If it's not rubbing a set of correct wheel nuts would be the easy option. If it is rubbing some spacers and longer studs could still be a cheap fix but the tyres must not project beyond the car bodywork. Then you would be into wheelarch extensions or having them rolled out and it is cheaper to replace the wheels with some from a breakers yard.

says all 4 stud fords are 35 or/to 38mm offset. Fiestaalternatives are 155/70x13, 185/60x13, 185/55x14 or 195/45x15, 185 islisted on 13 and 14 inch rims so your tyres should be OK for width,check for a gap between tyre and strut spring seat. As the profile/60 is big the rolling radius is a bit big (putting the tyre nearerthe spring seats) and the speedo will read low by a few %, next set oftyres should be 185/55x14. For economy it is possible to put a pairof new /55 profile tyres on the rear first and then put a second pairon later, always moving the part worn rears to the front and puttingnew tyres on the rear. Put which ever tyres have the best tread depthon the back now, put them on the front when you get new tyres. If the spare wheel is steel keep a set of chamfered nuts for it. If the spare does not match the rolling size of wheel and tyre on the other side of the car do not drive above 50mph when using it. Never run with mismatched sizes left to right across the car on the front or rear in normal use. Use this calculator to check. than 1.25% means the spare is not a good match so you should getthe road wheel fixed promptly.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

OK, I don't get this.

I'd much prefer the best tyres to be on the _driven_ wheels.

I know all about the lift-off oversteer issues you _could_ get with less grip on the back - but I still say that new tyres are best on the driven wheels.

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Oh, gawd - here we go again....

BTW - I'm with you, Steve. Whichever wears faster's using them harder, so needs the better tyres.

Any car I buy always gets fresh rubber asap as I don't feel safe driving around not knowing what the tyres are like, how many kerbs they've run into/up or how long they've been on the car etc. Cost me £400 odd quid on one car but tyres are not to be skimped on in my book. :-)

Mark S.

I reckon you've got Orion Ghia Alloy wheels with the steel wheel nuts & studs. Try asking in your local loud stereo/flashing lights shop & they'll sell you the right nuts, wheter the studs are long enough I don't know but it seems unlikely they're too short.

you are a endless thing of useful information Steve..

Sorry, I can't agree with that. Just check out Pirelli, Michelin, Dunlop et al. websites - newest/least worn should go to the back, less chance of losing control on a wet bend or under braking that way. Peter is correct in his advice.

Which country are those websites aimed at though? I thought the majority of cars in the UK had front wheel drive whereas in the US rear wheel drive is more common. When I read Michelin's (I think) US website before they guaranteed 100k miles per set of 4 wheels as long as you stuck to their rotation schedule where you rotate tyres front/back and left/right at certain intervals. I've not heard it recommended here to swap tyres right/left over here.

I could be wrong though!

D

several options here first up, they are escort/orion rims, not for the fiesta and not compatible due to the wrong offset second, they may even be sierra versions from a sierra ghia, totaly wrong wheels for the car, but as there isn't a side photo i can't tell read the figures on the side and tell me what they say this will tell you if they are either sierra rims or escort rims escort rims will be better as they aren't so far out that you need to swap them, just put smaller tyes on and things wil be ok

the thing that gets me is that you can clearly see that they have the worng wheel nuts fitted you need proper ford wheel nuts (or are they studs) and a set of them, new, from ford, will cost you around about the £50 mark

get a pic of the side angle of the rims first, then remove one of the wheel nuts and take a pic of that from the first glance to the expert eye they look like escort rims anyway, any more than that i can't say

the most important thng is to find the number that follows the ET stamped into the rim

dangerous"..."the

suggestions?

Bob Davis (bob snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

As I said. Here we go again.

I guess the advice is because, if you go into a corner braking or on the over-run, the back end will be very light, and liable to break away. As we all know, that's not how to drive. You lose your speed before you turn in, so the car's balanced, then, as you start to accelerate again, the weight transfers back - so the tyres at the front become lighter loaded. Since they're doing four jobs - carrying weight, changing the direction of the car, handling cornering forces *and* transmitting power - they're working far harder, so ought to be better.

It's advice aimed at the lowest-common-denominator driver, people who shouldn't really be let loose with a Tesco trolley, let alone driving anywhere *near* that close to the limits. I'd think it's likely to only become an issue if you're driving like a complete Wayne or on damn-near-bald tyres.

It's impossible to generalise - I've had cars (pushrod CXs) with getting on for 80% of the weight on the front - the rear tyres are only really there to stop the back bumper scraping on the ground. Absolutely undrivable with cheap tyres on the front, but put whatever the hell you like on the back, as long as it holds air. Hell, Citroen even put narrower tyres on the back than the front of CXs and Ds for years.

"Adrian" wrote in message news:Xns944FC13034830adrianachapmanfreeis@130.133.1.4...

damn-near-bald

Hmmm - some good points. I would agree that it's usually much more noticeable what rubber you have on the front wheels, and maybe that's the real problem. You would notice if your front tyres were near the limit of adhesion and back off - its usually too late if you notice a problem at the back. If you replace two worn front tyres, you are changing the balance of grip from the rear to the front, which may lead the driver into overestimating how much grip he usefully has. As to driving near the limits - I have aquaplaned on deep standing water about three times in the last twenty or so years, and crashed my motorbike once on a concrete strip which turned out to be sand. On none of these occasions was I driving recklessly, fast, or with near bald tyres, but still found myself in a situation where I had unexpectedly exceeded the available grip. I would suggest that it's rare situations like these where it may matter what tyre you have fitted where. Is there a right answer ? IMHO, well, if you can be bothered to read/think about/discuss the subject, you can probably do whatever you want, safely and in an informed manner. If you can't, better just let the fitter put the new ones on the back. In case you were wondering, I try to keep my tyres evenly worn by swapping round occasionally and replace them all together. In case we're all wrong ;-) As to the websites I looked at - Pirelli and Michelin were both the UK sites, so possibly aimed at the British and probably written by Europeans, not Yanks. French and Italian drivers - Hmmm.....

You're absolutely right. This "always put the new tyres on the back" rubbish is a recent fashion - 5 years ago absolutely no-one would have told you to do that. The first I heard of it was on Driven (so it can't be true) and their tests were complete balls (surprisingly enough). Now every man and his dog seems to believe it but I don't know where it came from The best tyres should go on the driven wheels unless the behaviour of the car dictates otherwise.

I had an Audi that was similar to your Citroen, big, front wheel drive, put greased wooden runners on the back if you like but superglue the fronts to the road and it would still understeer. I've had several old BMW 3 series and they are exactly the opposite. Now I drive a 5 series and the car is so balanced you just want the same all round, really, though I have a slight preference for the back because it facilitates fast getaways, especially at this time of year. Then again, I particularly dislike RWD car understeer so probably the same all round.

Hm yes, wasn't that the show that concluded the Range Rover was complete pants because it was slower round a race track than its BMW and Merc rivals?

Dan Buchan ( snipped-for-privacy@email.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

As I said - which end does it wear faster? That's the end it's using harder.

damn-near-bald

Where it came from was the tyre manufacturers. I assume they have the facts and research to back up their advice as, unlike ourselves (well, hopefully) they could be held liable for the consequences of advising people incorrectly. If you want it from the horses mouth so to speak, here are the "offending" advice pages:

I don't disagree with your observations, but I believe the advice isn't concerned with normal day-to-day driving but extreme situations such as loss of grip or flats, which apparently you are better off having at the front than at the rear.

That can't be the reason.

I'd much prefer to have a flat / blowout on the back - at least that way the steering wheels are still going to grip. Same with a loss of grip - I _hate_ losing the front, but find losing the rear quite easily controlled.

And we won't even get into the results of aquaplaning the front because you have s**te tyres on it.....

Of course, I ignore all the above when driving RWD - then I really would prefer to have more grip there - mainly beacuse I don't want any unpredictable breakaway under power.