Derv Megane - max damage?

I'd say in order of likelihood: valves...pistons...cylinder head...rocker gear...cylinder bores.

I'm not entirely sure how thw water pump would get damaged, however, it's a relatively cheap part to replace.

sPoNiX

Many water pumps are driven by the cambelt. It's thus conceivable that the original failure was the waterpump seizing, which then caused the cambelt to go.

Ian

True, the water pump failing would probably damage the cambelt.

Probably the water pump failed and took the belt out. The valves hit the pistons, the valve heads snap off and munch the cylinder head and the pistons, usually the pistons can be reused , but it is quite conceivable to ruin every major component of the engine. Moral is regular servicing (including regular water level checks which would show up water pump leakage long before it fails.) and of course cam belt and associated parts renewed in strict accordance with recommendations.

mrcheerful

Max damage would be a completely scrap engine.

Which engine does your friend have? The DTi or regular NA ?

You would be looking at a new head at the very least anyhow.

The water pump sounds like it was the culprit....

Tim..

In the worst case, the only salvagable part could be the crankshaft thus requiring a complete engine replacement.

You've all pretty much confirmed my suspicions about the total amount of

*possible* damage. However in this case he has a mechanic who claims that the diesel fuel pump seals are the culprit!! (Don't see how but what do I know?).

Pretty sure it's the NA version of the diesel.

Service history: full main dealer, big hole however where a 48,000 mile belt change should have been. My friend is the second owner, put the car in for a full service ahead of this incident and apparently was still advised that cambelt didn't need changing! When quizzed post-incident the main dealer says they're not culpable as the responsibility is the owner.

While I could question how far you can go with complaining about this, I feel that in this instance where you have (a) an average non-technical owner and (b) main dealer servicing schedules, that the main dealer *has* let him down.

Thanks all, just needed some confirmations.

I thought the waterpump was driven by a seperate belt on the Megan?

The diesel may have rotted the belt or made it stretchy.

The owners manual for the car usually specifies when the belt should be changed, so the onus is really on the owner, on an exaggerated basis you would not expect the dealer to tell you when to fill the fuel tank, would you. However if the dealer has specifically said not to change the belt when it was actually due and asked for then you need some proof and take the small claims route. Chances of success without written proof would be very low though.

mrcheerful

The message from "DocDelete" contains these words:

Holed pistons, bent and broken valves and guides, smashed head, even knackered cat (if fitted) from debris. Injectors damaged by debris - you name it you can break it.

It's doubtful he'll pursue this. Your analogy doesn't hold up though - filling the fuel tank may be in the instruction manual but is not an item on the service schedule, complete with main dealer "check here if done" points on the form. Timing belt change is.

If it were me (and not my average motorist friend) I *do* see your point. I would always quiz the dealer if things *hadn't* been checked. But then again I actually know what a timing belt is - most drivers do not.

Actually, it's quite interesting to hear my mate come out with phrases like, "and then that means the head set was replaced". When I told him a "head set" was a packet full of rubber grommets and paper gaskets he asked what good these were in a metal engine. ;-)

DocDelete ( snipped-for-privacy@thehomeofnospam.org) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Basically - worst case, the car is economically scrap.

Rubber hates oil.

Because that service was going to be an expensive one, and they were about to flog the car.

Did he tell them that it hadn't had the 48k service, so the belt hadn't ever been changed? Or was he expecting them to be psychic?

I suspect he just said "I've bought it, can I have a service, please? It's got 5x,000 miles on" - and the dealer didn't ask "Has it had the cambelt changed?" - they've assumed that it has, as it's past the interval. I s'pose a good lawyer could turn that into a case, but...

Yes but most dealers will only change a cambelt when instructed to. It isn't done as part of a regular scheduled service. Brake fluid and coolant changes are the same..you need to request them.

Conor ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Really? That's fairly s**te - specifically omitting things that are in the schedule.

Hiho. Another good reason to avoid dealers, then, in favour of the few proper garages still left.

Ive got a renault megane scenic (x reg) and when quizzing renault over when should the belt be changed they said 70,000 miles. Why the big difference if they are virtually the same cars?

MeAndHer ( snipped-for-privacy@thisaddressyoudont.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Is it the same engine?

I agree here!

If the manual says "80k service should include a cambelt change", and the dealer then don't change it, stating that you didn't ask, that's a huge cop- out.

It's akin to not bothering to change the oil on a 10k service "because you didn't ask".

Pete.

The message from Pete Smith contains these words:

Getting the customer to sign a waiver stating that they understand that neglecting to change a cambelt may result in almost complete engine trashing and that this will not be the garage's fault would go some way.

Of course, they won't be keen 'cos it'd imply that if they /did/ change the belt they'd be liable for the damage caused by subsequent breakage.

It's not usually up to the customer to *ask* it's up to the customer to

*decide*! We would love every customer to have a belt change but if you did it without asking them (and telling them the cost) first, most would bitch about the cost. When you book a service most garages will ask you if you want the belt changed.