electric cars coming along

There are now powerful electric cars with Lithium batteries, such cars will feel no different form ordinary fuel powered cars. However, the main problem with electric cars is the long term performance of the battery, maybe only 3-5 years, that is a major and costly component to replace. Compare that with a petrol/diesel engine which last maybe

10-15 years. But there is now a logical solution to this problem. There is an option where you can lease the batteries for a monthly fee from the manufacturer. The manufacturer then maintains the battery performance and replaces/recycles it as necessary. Still much cheaper than buying petrol/diesel fuel. I shall certainly be interested.
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Reply to
johannes
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Interesting. Long before I drive a battery powered car I doubt I'll be on the road :)

Reply to
maxi

johannes wrote: || There are now powerful electric cars with Lithium batteries, such || cars will feel no different form ordinary fuel powered cars. However, || the main problem with electric cars is the long term performance of || the battery, maybe only 3-5 years, that is a major and costly || component to replace. Compare that with a petrol/diesel engine which || last maybe 10-15 years. But there is now a logical solution to this || problem. There is an option where you can lease the batteries for a || monthly fee from the manufacturer. The manufacturer then maintains || the battery performance and replaces/recycles it as necessary. Still || much cheaper than buying petrol/diesel fuel. I shall certainly be || interested.

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But surely the money and hassle involved in running one of those would be better spent on paying to fuel of a small conventional 60 mpg diesel car for the next few years?

Reply to
Ivan

Possibly. The car that I'm interested in, the Think OX, is still at the concept stage; perhaps it will take another year before we will see them. But nice looking car of Golf class and 0-60 in 8.5s. It probably wont be cheap. However, people in e.g. Denmark are used to pay sky-high prices for cars, so it would be affordable with some environmental tax discount. Range still only 200km, (124.3 miles), but might be extended to 450km.

Reply to
johannes

So you simply add the profit involved on that to the actual cost? Same as renting anything. It's poor value for most. Otherwise you'd rent the actual car.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

"Dave Plowman (News)" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

*ding*

The same number of batteries are being used. Those batteries still cost the same. All you're doing is paying for somebody else to provide you with finance to spread the cost about - and their admin costs, profit etc to do so.

Reply to
Adrian

The concept of "power by the hour" is already used by airlines for the engines and other major aircraft parts. The original equipment manufacturer manages the up-time and efficiency, undertaking repairs as required.

With batteries let's hope for some standardisation to give the consumer a bit of choice.

Reply to
John

I think this is different. Those batteries don't cost the same... The manufacturer might be able to refurbish the batteries, using most of the components. You don't necessarily need spanking new batteries, you only need is the performance of the batteries. Hence there could be an is a net economic advantage.

Reply to
johannes

Business financing is a *very* different matter than domestic. For a start they can offset outgoings against tax. A private individual can't. They also tend to have different cash flow than an individual.

Like with present day car batteries? Mobile phone ones? Laptops? Pigs may fly...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The only type of rechargeable battery that can be repaired is a lead acid

- and it's normally cheaper to simply re-cycle the raw materials.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

About £15k for current Lithium batteries about every 3 years regardless of use.

Add a 0 and you will be closer, there are vast amounts of untapped oil and even larger amounts in the "abandoned" fields as it was unaffordable at the time to extract it.

So a minimum of £420 a month plus the cost of charging, so that would get you

4000 miles worth of DERV in an average TDi hatch, lot of miles a month. You'd need to be stupid to buy into the hype.
Reply to
Depresion

johannes gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Those rose-tinted glasses seem to be causing some issues...

Yes, they will.

If an electric Bloggsmobile Model X gets through a set of batteries every three years doing 20,000 miles per year, then it will need approximately five sets of batteries across it's life. Those batteries will be EXACTLY the same whether they're bought outright, leased or whatever.

Fine, so you can buy recon batteries as well as lease 'em.

Don't be daft. The actual economics of however you pay for them is _completely_ separate from the technology, the life-span and whether they can be reconditioned. All that's different is how you pay for 'em. One way involves a big up-front expenditure, the other involves a regular drip-feed that pays for the same widgets plus the cost of financing them. Which, over time, is more.

Reply to
Adrian

Lithium Ion batteries do have the benefit of being "virtually" 100% recyclable, but it's not a cheap or overly environmentally friendly process. The recyclables gets trotted out by the EV fans but seldom the costs involved.

Reply to
Depresion

Oops, I really meant that the engine as a component can last 10-15 years before needs replacing (or the car being scrapped). My 15 year old saab engine still runs as new.

The quote was 200 Euro/month or £160/month. I use for £300/month in petrol.

Reply to
johannes

You can 1. If you can find a supplier, 2. With no ceratinty that they will work very long and no replacement if they don't.

Probably, the manufacturer is best placed to take advantage of the returned batteries and to ensure that refurbished batteries meets the requirements.

But anybody can just make the calculation to see what is best. This is not a green discussion, it is just about motoring economy in an uncertain world.

Reply to
johannes

I have plently of 40 year old cars on there first engine.

Reply to
Depresion

johannes gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

And, apart from getting a replacement for a duff recon (easily sorted with a... guarantee...), what's the difference between buying and leasing?

And that couldn't be easily done by having an exchange surcharge on the new set? Just like starter motors, alternators, driveshafts etc have had for years.

Reply to
Adrian

odd really, electric cars have been around for over a hundred years, yet are still not viable

Reply to
Mrcheerful

Mrcheerful wrote: || johannes wrote: ||| There are now powerful electric cars with Lithium batteries, such ||| cars will feel no different form ordinary fuel powered cars. ||| However, the main problem with electric cars is the long term ||| performance of the battery, maybe only 3-5 years, that is a major ||| and costly component to replace. Compare that with a petrol/diesel ||| engine which last maybe 10-15 years. But there is now a logical ||| solution to this problem. There is an option where you can lease ||| the batteries for a monthly fee from the manufacturer. The ||| manufacturer then maintains the battery performance and ||| replaces/recycles it as necessary. Still much cheaper than buying ||| petrol/diesel fuel. I shall certainly be interested. |||

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|| || odd really, electric cars have been around for over a hundred years, || yet are still not viable.

Although it's only within the last two or three years that our local milk delivery people have switched their fleet over to diesel, I bet they're now beginning to wonder whether they did the right thing:0)

Reply to
Ivan

Yes, it could probably be done. But it would take time to establish reliable suppliers. BTW, I once tried an exchange alternator, it didn't last...

Reply to
johannes

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