Focus or Civic for £3,000?

Toyota Avensis or Corolla

I would go anything with anything Japanese rather than Ford (although the Focus is good fun to drive).

Mrcheerful

If you go with the Focus, make sure you find one with a/c.

Tim.

The differences between LX and Zetec are largely cosmetic apart from the Zetec having slightly stiffer suspension. I'm not sure how that makes the Zetec less good for you?

Whichever you choose, it must have aircon! It was not standard on early cars.

At your suggested price point, high milage is likely. Bear in mind that all (petrol) Focuses are due a cambelt change at 100K miles, so budget for this. It's not particularly expensive, but might be a good bargaining point.

The 1.6 is adequate, but has a very high top gear. If your motorway miles are in a hilly part of the country and you like to maintain brisk progress, the 1.8 might be better for you.

Having owned a Focus from new since 1999, it would be my first choice in this group. Another factor in its favour is that there are many more around than the others you mention, so you can be very choosy.

Although depreciation of all Fords tends to be high in the first three years of ownership, it bottoms out sooner than most other makes.

The commonly held belief of Japanese reliability is less true now than it might have been 10 or more years ago. As you have alluded to, expensive parts offset this.

A well-reported German test of the reliability of three year old cars of all makes put the Focus first.

Chris

In news:Xns9915A931D8047D92F1@127.0.0.1, David wittered on forthwith;

Focus. Focus. Focus.

The Focus is by far and away the best car of its type. Miles ahead of anything else available at the time, and far better than most of the stuff available now. Reliability wise they're pretty bombproof - I ran a hire car fleet which had over 100 of them at any time and we ran them hard, minimal servicing, and lots of high mileage with every type of driver. We had three unexpected failures in three years - a gearbox on a diesel, a rear shock on a 3dr Zetec and a starter motor on a petrol one which had been wrongfuelled. That is an astonishingly low failure rate for a hire car fleet, the only other things we ever had that were anywhere near that reliable were Corolla diesels - and they're nowhere near as good to drive.

The second best choice for me would be a Seat Leon. Not as reliable or as much fun to drive, and a pain to reverse park, but they're a nice car. I'd like the turbo one probably more than a Focus ST170 just because I like the Leons seats.

I'd definitely recommend the Focus, they are great to drive, plentiful secondhand and cheap to run. Avoid the 1.4- they're underpowered.

I wouldn't rule out the turbo diesels if economy is important, or even if it isn't- they use significantly less fuel than the petrols and are very nice to drive- better than the 1.6 petrol IMHO (which I own). You may be pushed to find a decent TDCi in your price range but they are out there if you look hard. The older TDDis are plentiful and cheap though, and while they aren't as refined as common-rail diesels, they go quite well and are very cheap to feed!

As pointed out by others- don't consider one without air con. Not just because of the obvious benefits of keeping cool, but because the Focus has quite poor ventilation and is very prone to misting up. Mine has heated front windscreen and air con, and I wouldn't want to be without them- winter and summer! If the air con doesn't work, walk away. At best it may need topping up. At worst it could have been neglected/disused and require hundreds spent to get it running. Don't haggle, just say no!

Check around the door mirrors, the tailgate chrome insert, bottoms of doors and all the other usual places (wheel arches etc) for rust or bubbled paintwork. The Focus is no rot box but there are a few potential problem areas need looking at before buying.

I'd personally look at the Ghia and Zetec trim levels. AIUI both have stiffer suspension than the lower end models and handle very well indeed.

Morse

The LX is not a lower end model when compared to the Zetec. They sold for the same price when new.

Only the Zetec has stiffened suspension, according to the brochure for the '99 model year.

It's one reason why I would advise against it, funnily enough :-)

Chris

The Ghia and LX have similar suspender setups, the Zetec is 10% stiffer spring with tauter dampers. All Foci are exceptionally chuckable, the Zetec is alittle stiff at low speeds, but the faster you go the more it flows.

As i said before, A/C and HFW essential.

Tim..

He's right about the climate pack being essential, a Focus without them can get mighty hot in the summer.

Either LX, Zetec or Ghia, they all drive really well. 1.4 is slow, 1.6 is ok, 1.8 is quite a bit better than the 1.6 and doesn't seem to use any more fuel. 2.0 is deceptively quick - lots more torque, but they do use a fair bit more fuel than the 1.8.

Earlier Focus diesels are reliable but agricultural, the TDCi is excellent and prices reflect their superiority over the TDDi. Estates are pretty good, saloons less so but all the saloons (in the UK at least) are Ghias, so they've all got AC and heated front screens. The Ghia velour trim is nice but is a weapons grade fluff magnet (I mean actual fluff, not totty)

"Pete M" wrote in message news:f03b7k$qda$ snipped-for-privacy@registered.motzarella.org...

I couldnt have said it better!

I still miss mine..., tempted to get another, possibly a rare STDci in magnum with the 17's...mmmm

Tim..

The Avensis is a bit big. Is it cheaper than expected to run?

The pricing of secondhand Toyotas is surprisingly good. Avensis 1.6 VVTi GS 5d (2001/Y) is about £3,000 to £3,500. Corolla hatch 1.6 VVTi GS 5d (2000/X) is about £2,500 to £3,000

How comes they are that low if they are so much beter made than the competition? The lower end price is for a badly maintained one but the upper end price is not bad.

Should I be suspicious of this low pricing? Perhaps expensive 100,000 mile components? Or components which are hard to get:

The Avensis has a reputation for being ultra-reliable - boringly so, and the same goes for driving it. Not had one myself, but did have its forerunner, the Carina. Nothing ever goes wrong, they're just a bit uninspiring. Same applied to pricing then too, the Carina was cheaper than the equivalent Corolla, and oddly enough, also cheaper to insure. Don't ask me why. But nothing wrong with the car. Just good value.

The LX sold for £500 more than the Zetec when new.

I agree. There is nothing wrong with the softer setup. It handles fine and rides well.

In message , Tim.. writes

I'm really pleased with my 2.0 TDCi. It really goes well and drives beautifully. I still have my 99 1.6 LX which I've owned from new and doesn't give any trouble.

Morse wrote: || David wrote: || ||| Can you give me a pointer as to which cars/model to look into. ||| ||| I have about 3,000 to get a car. ||| For me and the wife. ||| ||| Will do approx 3000 miles a year ||| (half on local runs and half on 140 mile Motorway journeys). ||| ||| Most important is it needs to be cheap to run. ||| It also needs to be reliable. ||| ||| 5-door manual petrol hatchback. ||| Not too sure who I would buy it from. ||| || || I'd definitely recommend the Focus, they are great to drive, || plentiful secondhand and cheap to run. Avoid the 1.4- they're || underpowered. || || I wouldn't rule out the turbo diesels if economy is important, or || even if it isn't- they use significantly less fuel than the petrols || and are very nice to drive- better than the 1.6 petrol IMHO (which I || own). You may be pushed to find a decent TDCi in your price range || but they are out there if you look hard. The older TDDis are || plentiful and cheap though, and while they aren't as refined as || common-rail diesels, they go quite well and are very cheap to feed! || || As pointed out by others- don't consider one without air con. Not || just because of the obvious benefits of keeping cool, but because || the Focus has quite poor ventilation and is very prone to misting || up. Mine has heated front windscreen and air con, and I wouldn't || want to be without them- winter and summer! If the air con doesn't || work, walk away. At best it may need topping up. At worst it could || have been neglected/disused and require hundreds spent to get it || running. Don't haggle, just say no! || || Check around the door mirrors, the tailgate chrome insert, bottoms || of doors and all the other usual places (wheel arches etc) for rust || or bubbled paintwork. The Focus is no rot box but there are a few || potential problem areas need looking at before buying. || || I'd personally look at the Ghia and Zetec trim levels. AIUI both have || stiffer suspension than the lower end models and handle very well || indeed. || Driving home in my focus TDCI yesterday I couldn't help noticing just how many Fords there are on the road nowadays, they seemed to be almost every other car I saw.

Perhaps at long last it's actually sunk into their thick skulls that if you make something half tidy and reliable people will actually go out and buy it, something that Japanese companies appeared to have twigged a long time ago, and why they don't appear to have anywhere near some of the horrendous financial problems associated with some European and American manufacturers.

I'd hazard a guess that if the 'average' motorist had to put their most important requirement at the top of a list, it would be reliability.

|| Morse

Erm, it's been like that for a long, long time.

Think back to the 80s - every other car was a Fiesta, Escort or Sierra with a lot of Granadas around, too.

Tells me that people will buy any old shit because their father always bought Ford, so therefore they buy Ford, too.

There can be no other explanation for people wanting to drive the same dull as ditchwater heaps of shit as everyone else on the roads.

Hello SteveH, I didn't think it would be long before you added your informed, unbiased comments to this thread :-)

What particular heap of Italian crap would you advise the OP to get instaed then?

Chris

Oh, I wouldn't particularly go recommending Italian cars to a lot of people - but there are a lot of cars out there that have so much more to offer than the default blue oval choices.

I just don't get it - people rave about the Focus, but my fairly limited experience of driving them - is that they're nowhere near as nice to drive as they're made out to be. Funny driving position and rubbery feedback being my biggest complaints about the Focus.

In message , SteveH writes

Indeed they do.

..........nuf said!

I've driven them far enough to get the 'ewww, this feels *wrong*' feeling. That's enough for me.

The only other car I've driven recently that made me feel that way was a