Is Fiat Punto and Vauxhall Corsa the same car under the skin?

Yes they are.

I first thing I noticed was that the keys were identical. Inside the car they look the same, apart from the different Manufacturer's logo in various places. The car is spacious and engine is very quiet, but car feels twitchy like a small car when you drive. The most annoying thing with the Corsa is that you can't cancel the indicator, it will only cancels after you make a proper turn. So you can't use the indicator if you want to make a swerve around a parked car on a narrow road.

From

"A new version of the Gamma platform, dubbed SCCS (Small Common Components and Systems), was codeveloped since 2002 by a team of Fiat and Opel engineers located in Turin. The platform premiered with 2006 Fiat Grande Punto and is used in 2007 Corsa."

You can. Apply it again.

It doesn't, see above.

You can - try only moving the switch half way if you use one of these again - it should kick in 'three flashes and you're out'.

Yep. They managed to make the cars look different, but closer inspection reveals that the bodies cover the same outline. But I didn't notice this before the moment I was handed the key, then suddenly the penny dropped...

Typical in a computer age; you have to do something which is illogical. The logical move would be to move the indicator back to centre, as in my very old Saab.

[...]

OK (I suppose). Next model I expect to see a keyboard and a mouse instead of steering wheel and indicators :-)

Many cars have had move indicator halfway for passing for many years, at least back to 1988.

As for keybord and mouse the BMW iDrive is close.

Yes but they used to let you cancel it by letting go.

Got my 15 old Saab 9000 back again, how wonderful it felt compared to the

08 Corsa! The Corsa wasn't a bad drive, and everything worked as it should, the engine was smooth ( at idle), though strained at 70. But compared to the old Saab, it felt wandering and twitchy, whereas the Saab felt so easy and relaxed in comparison, almost like gliding. I could probably live with the Corsa, but I don't really understand why there has to be this difference in driving experience; at 1100 kg the Corsa isn't really a small car any more, so why can't they sort out the steering in a modern car?

"Sort out?" They have sorted it out. You're just used to something with relatively inert steering combined with fifteen years of wear.

You'll find a large number of machines these days feel twitchy. Moving from our Mondeo to our Ka, that felt twitchy. After getting used to it, I found the Ka responsive whereas many larger cars feels inert.

Have you tried the 9-3 Sports Saloon, as this is another example of a sharp, responsive steering set up.

Does the Corsa still have electric PAS? That can feel strange until you adapt to it.

If not set up correctly, it can also react differently depending on whether you are turning left or right!

Chris

But if the steering was in inert, the car would wander about. My Saab doesn't wander, it keeps in perfectly straight line on the motorway with little effort. There is no sign of wear as far as I can feel; the steering is very precise. Maybe it is something to do with the castor angle of the front wheels. The Corsa does react quickly to a turn, almost too quickly, but that is only useful at very low speeds like in a car park. Oh I wish I could have both worlds: A small, but stable car.

Erm, no; that simply means that the steering system doesn't respond to the tiny movements of the wheel that happen. Many of the American cars from the

1980s need about a quarter of lock before they start to turn, presumably for coffee-drinking drivers on freeways... :)

That you find modern stuff twitchy could simply be that you are simply used to how your 9000 drives or there is a problem

It is simply how the Corsa - amongst a gazillion other cars - has been set up.

Erm - absolutely not. It's useful for darting into and out of roundabouts or corners.

Stability isn't the same as a sluggish turn in and I think you mean something else. So have you tried a 9-3 Sports Saloon?

Corsas are quite twitchy though, they're short & feel like there's lots of toe-in so they respond quickly to the steering, but also to wind & bumps.

But you're talking about the old slushy pin & ball steering. The 9000 has rack and pinion steering, which is mostly used nowadays. I suggest the difference is in the castor angle, as I mentioned before.

Somehow you're suggesting that it is my fault, I strongly disagree. It's absolutely not a problem having a car that goes in the direction where you steer it and doesn't wander about. The 9000 is not a go cart, and not intended to be used as such. I could probably be used to drive a twitchy car, but its a step backward IMO. After 150,000 miles, the fun of darting around somehow wears out...

Maybe because there is not enough room for a castor angle in a compact car, whereas the 9000 has a longer bonnet.

And making you car sick...

Nope.

No, that's part of the fun in driving! Try it in a classic Mini and you'll see what I mean!

Sir, there are two kinds of driving: Having fun in weekends; showing off your skills. And then there is long distance commuter driving where you want to arrive in a relaxed state.

[snip]

Not quite - I do mean the stuff with more modern (less antique!) steering set ups.

Sorry; I am.

It sounds like... well... how to put this nicely..? Ah yes, you're maturing more in what you want to drive...

Nope.

Then the next time Saab try to get you to swap for a newer model, perhaps go and try one? The 9-3 feels silly responsive to steering input and it's very twitchy _but_ one does get used to it after a while. I found my Ka twitchy and too-responsive at first, but you adapt your driving and compensate. Actually it's probably a lack of compensating for steering input.

Something inexperienced aircrew suffer from is flying on the needles, trying to adjust for every change in an instrument, which forms a kind of human feedback loop resulting in a very jerky ride. If you're in something taut in the set up, the temptation is to try to over-compensate.

There's no reason why one machine can't achieve both objectives, but if one has spent a long time in a machine biased for one type, they'll be lots of frustration as one tries to adjust.