looking @ 4x4s

I'd suggest that if you were to really insist on buying something like that for mainly town use, that you don't restrict your choice to the two worst ones on the market.

Cheers Chris

In news:44085183$0$6981$ snipped-for-privacy@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net, Joker7 wrote something quite bizarre, possibly in an effort to confuddle the world. It went like so;

Fronteras really are utterly crap, truly, amazingly awful.

Badly built, underpowered, awful ride on road, awful off road, uncomfortable just to sit in, ergonomic nightmares and possibly the worst thing sold in the UK for years [1]

The Maverick is much better made, but still bloody awful.

If you're going to buy something 4x4 either get an LPG powered Range Rover Classic, or a diseasel Shogun.

The message from "Joker7" contains these words:

The Frontera, for a start. Foul things.

But shirley if you want a large car an MPV or something like a gargantuan Volvo or those FO big Peugeot estates would be much better. Better economy, better for the planet, better road holding etc.

The message from "Malc" contains these words:

Or, for relaxation, turbo-diseasel automatic Merc estate. Carry the moon in comfort and style and without falling over on roundabouts.

If you need to ask what the fuel economy is, you can't afford to run one. If its 70% town and 30% motorway, why the f*ck do you want a 4x4? You ARE aware that they have greater stopping distances and are quite unstable in emergency manouvres involving lane change or change of direction and that the tyres fitted are s**te in the wet?

: If you need to ask what the fuel economy is, you can't afford to run : one. If its 70% town and 30% motorway, why the f*ck do you want a 4x4? : You ARE aware that they have greater stopping distances and are quite : unstable in emergency manouvres involving lane change or change of : direction and that the tyres fitted are s**te in the wet? : : : : -- : Conor, : : Same shit, different day.

First there is no need for the foul language seconded what I can and can't afford has no-thing to do with you. I have ask the opinion of people in this group as to their thoughts on the above.Most if not all have been constructive apart from your rant.I do thank-you for the comment on manoeuvring and stopping distance,it just a shame the rest was of such low taste.

Chris

What you can and can't afford is relevant if you're asking about running costs, if you ask me.

Swearing is as swearing does.

Out of interest, why do you need a 4x4 if it's mostly around town? You mention towing - just how heavy are the loads you want to tow? In general, towing capacities are directly related to weight, and getting something the size of a Frontera (which aren't *that* heavy, I don't think) wouldn't have that much benefit in terms of towing capacity over a large saloon/estate/MPV.

Fuel economy on most 4x4s is pretty poor. Diesel models are lucky to top

30mpg and petrol ones much less than that, so think mid-20s. Big petrol models often drop below 20.

I've driven most of them and owned a few. I'd recommend any of the Toyotas, Shoguns are decent enough, and Isuzus and Nissans OK. Discoveries are very overrated IMO; comfortable enough but crap build quality, and I've lost count of how many I've pulled off muddy campsites. For your budget, Range Rovers will only be elderly Classic models, but don't dismiss those, there are some gems around if you look for them, especialy those with LPG conversions.

Fronteras and Mavericks are pants. And the Vitara I owned was flimsy and tinny.

Go round and drive anything you can - something may surprise you. I remember going to a dealer to test the Trooper, Shogun and Patrols he had in stock, and buying the LandCruiser that I hadn't considered! (it was an old HJ60 model, ie before G-reg - this was ten years back - best

4x4 by a long way, but it did 18-27mpg diesel).

To be perfectly honest, a good full-size MPV is a better car for a big family to tow with. I've replaced my 4x4s with Toyota Previas which tow better than any of those and are more stable to drive. Sadly they're just as thirsty!

Joker7, alas your query is going to attract the anti-4x4 brigade (plus the odd foul mouthed nutter), but you really should consider some of the diesel estates mentioned or even an MPV. I agree with the comments about the Frontera, I had one for three years (on and off) and it was a foul machine in terms of reliability and comfort. Discos or Range Rovers maybe, but for reliability I would guess you need to go Japanese...Mitsu's, Toyota and Nissan...but I have no personal experience of these.

GL

ginga

A sierra XR 4×4 :-) the one with the 2.9 V6 :-)

H482 TKW we miss you!

Why not try yourself with a Zafira.... A Borrowed a friends a few months back 2.0DTI plenty fast and could tow and elephant - or a trailer full of horse manure.... No not one of the farty little piddle trailers, a proper almost farmyard trailer :-)

Tom

The message from Conor contains these words:

And are unexpectedly small inside. Dunno why people think they're spacious but they're usually cramped and what space there is is in unusable shapes and places.

Ignoring the foul mouthed nutter for a while: I'm not anti 4X4 when it's in the right place. Fine if you're in the country and going off road but around town they're downright antisocial. Apart from fuel economy, road holding and suchlike, the bumpers are specifically designed to take out any pedestrian unlucky enough to get in the way (and there will be some kids who don't have road sense), you can't see past the bloody things if you're stuck behind them (unless you are a foul mouthed nutter in a lorry of course) and they're going to be more expensive to maintain and insure.

==================== Jeremy Clarkson did a road test on a 4x4 ( Range Rover, I think). He got about 9 mpg on an extended test drive around London. I doubt if that's a typical result but it's well to be aware that economy is not a strong point with this type of vehicle.

Another aspect would appear to be relevant.

I frequently notice that drivers of these larger vehicles appear to have difficulty in judging the width and overall size of their vehicles. Most people learn to drive in relatively small cars and the transition from small car to 4x4 may be an unpleasant experience. Another poster here suggested test driving before you buy and that seems to be a good idea just to ensure that you don't commit yourself to something that you or your wife / children don't feel safe driving.

Cic.

I reckon people will feel a lot safer than they actually are in a big tall car like the ones being discussed. So unfortunately the "don't feel safe driving" filter works the wrong way.

cheers, clive

What no footnote?

I'm sure you mean "except for the Renault Megane, the Lada Samara, the Alfa Anything, the Citroen Everything Else..."

To quote Pete M:

"I *really* like Xantias."

"Always wanted a CX Turbo."

and that's without even considering alfas :-)

cheers, clive

So bad the footnote fell off, eh?