mechanical cars - are there still cars around that don't use electronics

| don't think so, why?

The last carburetor car I had was a FIAT Croma CHT 1987; wow that's more than

20 years ago. The fuel system was quite innovative and was a last ditch attempt by FIAT to make the carburetor system efficient. The car had a 2 Litre engine, but with the official fuel consumption figure of 51 mpg! It did require some careful ignition advance adjustment or you could get pinking.

Plenty of older indirect injection diesels and turbodiesels will still work without electrics, once started. Although some of the later indirect injection turbodiesels had ECUs to do certain things with the auxiliary systems, such as control the cooling fan(s).

In message , John writes

Almost definitely not in the EU, US or anywhere else that has emissions regulations.

Look in places that are in the 'developing world' and are large enough to have their own car models and you'll find plenty of cars with little to no electronics apart from CDI ignition or diesels with purely mechanical injection systems.

Oddly, if you wanted to remove the electronics from a modern petrol engine it would be harder to fit the distributor than it would be to build a fuel injection system because you're likely to need machine tools to modify the head.

I'd say most would define a car as something which could be driven legally on the public roads - and your one couldn't.

Some older deisels will run without electrics - but dunno how you'd start it.

My Discovery ... though whether you'd call it modern is a moot point ... ;)

Last of them before ECU's fitted, no electric windows, mirrors etc. Well, the wiring's there so I add bits as they break eg passenger door mirror is now electric, and I have fitted electric headlamp leveller motors and switch, all for the sum of about a tenner!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

There's a big difference between "electrics" and "electronics".

Lights and indicators are legal requirements. But they don't have to be electronically controlled. Wipers, electric windows/mirrors aren't even legal requirements. Emissions are probably sufficiently tight that they can't be easily met without electronic engine management now, but there's certainly been mechanical fuel injection (Bosch K-Jet's the best known), as well as carbs.

Cats marked the end for totally non-electronic petrol fuelling - even K- jet required electronic lambda control.

But, mostly, it's sheer market preference for toys. Theft protection was a major driver for electronic control - immobilisers seemed to be one of the main "benefits" of non-common-rail diesels moving from mechanical to electronic pumps around the mid '90s.

I owned a 1992 FIAT Tempra 1.6 with a carburettor. But it only got 30mpg or so.

No. Emission standards post 1993 means that every petrol engined car manufactured after that date needs electronic engine management.

Diesel engined cars fare better but only up to 2001 AFAIK.

You can make Pinto engined Sierras and Granadas run without electronics as you can still buy second hand distributors,carburettors and mechanical fuel pumps from pre-1993 models as well as Pinto engined Capris, Escorts, Cortinas but they wouldn't pass an MOT.

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Not _quite_. It means they need emissions levels that are probably impossible to achieve without electronic engine management.

That was the marketing, the main reason was emissions, you can just about get through the emissions tests with a mechanical pump the driveability goes to pot.

You can get a post 93 sierra through, bit pointless though.

Possibly, your Tempra didn't have the CHT intake system. The 51mpg was the official extra urban figure. 35mpg was more realistic, but the point is that the mpg was much the same as for ECU fuel injected models.

IIRC the emissions standards apply to the engine, not the year of the car, so you could get a new car and put an old car and not have anything other than a visual smoke test

I know that. But does the OP? Not by the wording of the question.

I think you can assume that from OP's question: "without the use of electronic chips etc?"

And what can you assume from "indicators, lights, wipers, electric windows and mirrors etc"?

i guess the OP is worried about modern cars being left stranded when something electrical to do with then engine managment goes wrong, and then costs an arm and a leg to repair.

so he wants a petrol car with a carb and dizzy, 1993 is about the last you'll get one of them i believe, as cats were required after then, there is a way to get a carbed car to run with a cat and meet modern emisions requirments, in germany you can get a K-kat fitted, but it does have some electronics which basicaly controlls the mixture on the main jet of the carb in response to a lambada probe.

for diesels like has been said also, prior to 2001 you could still get purely mechanical injection engines,

if you wanted to really have no electrics at all, the engine in my iveco can do that if you take the engine stop solenoid's plunger out (or replace it with a pull stop cable) you'd have to fit a crank handle to the front pulley, but better to bump start it, as i have had to do a few times when the italian electrics played up and i lost the alternator's charge, but once it's running it'll runn till the diesel runs out.

if you really want something modern that still has a carb, you want a motorbike, but even then your stuck with upto a 2007 model, as after that bikes need to meet higher emissions targets, so they have gone to FI now.

my september 2007 transalp 650 was one of the last to have carbs, but as with most bikes, they still have a CDI module, which is electronic, mine has a feedback from a TPS mounted to the side of the carbs to sort out ignition advance with throttle openings and all that.

My Gf has just bought a 125cc scooter, even that has FI and a cat, that model had FI since 2003, before that it had a 2 stroke engine with all sorts of electronicaly controlled servo's, valves, some weird pre-ignition module and so on, they managed to get the emmisions similar to that of a 4 stroke, but gave up and went for a proper 4 stroke injected engine 5 years later.

Is wrong otherwise everyone using a Zetec, Duratec or XE engine in an old Ford would have to have a catalytic convertor and not be able to run sidedraught webers.

The emissions are all down to the age of the car.