So a guy buys a dies car with another 8 owners on the log book and gets dipped by HMRC positive.
How long does the dye remain in the tank for and can the time it has been in be identified to help narrow the input of it down to a particular owner/driver?
it would not matter, the offence is by the user at the time of the stop.
Even though they have no idea the tank has had red in it?
yep, the possibility of someone else having put it in could be mitigation (although it might just annoy the judge), but the driver is the one committing the offence.
the offence is the use, not putting it in.
From the link you posted, there's actually a few posts about dilution rates of the chemical marker and the level of red/litre below which a) it's not "red" and b) they can't even be sure it had red in it. Ok, that's all for boats but I imagine the same rules apply to cars. After several loads of white through the system there'll be no tracer left. And in a car system there's usually nothing to (easily) pull apart to find the dye staining.
I was told - Although there seems to be a lot of 'my mate down the pub said said' on the subject, that the dye stains the tank itself and doesn't wash off.
In which case, how would it get into the sample that HMRC take?
Presumably the prudent course of action is to ask HMRC to examine any diesel before you buy it. Presumably this is a service they offer?
Just out of interest, why were they dipping YOUR tank? I've been driving diesels for 20 years and never been dipped. Did they have reason to suspect your car?
Tim
fuel filter
They do [1] dip vehicles randomly. I've been dipped twice, the first time was in a van where they followed me off the motorway near Portsmouth on to a site, where they parked across the front of me to prevent my escape.[2] They sucked out a sample from the tank, looked at it, said "That's fine" and put it back in my tank.
The second time was in a service area on the M1, and they went to cars arriving, asked if the car was diesel or petrol, and if it was diesel, they dipped it. On this occasion they took the sample into their van, and did whatever they do while the accompanying plod checked my paperwork. On this occasion it was at night, so presumably they couldn't just look at it.
But I have to say there's a lot of cobblers spouted on this, as on so many other subjects. The HMRC know that if the fuel isn't a very high percentage of red, you will have the chance to claim in mitigation that it was historical and down to someone else. They don't waste their time prosecuting if it's a bit iffy, it's not worth it. Just like the plod won't prosecute you for doing 31 MPH. They play the percentage game. If you've been filling up legally, you're going to be all right.
Steve
[1] Or did, this was over tenty years ago. [2] Until they did that, I didn't know it was the customs, I just thought another van was going on to the site.
Don't ever fill up with Red and drive down the road to a city social housing estate.
Over the last 10 years at least once a year I've seen Customs and Excise with VOSA and Police dipping at the same place in Derby. Police are using ANPR to determine fuel type, wave me on but flag down all Diesels to join the queue.
It may be due to there being a VOSA test station in Derby making it easier to setup.
Lol - It's a brand new car so no red diesel in it. Just curious.
There was a guy on the local industrial estate flogging diesel at £1.20 / litre recently. I asked the bloke with the bodyshop who was doing my Alfa if it was red... he said it wasn't.
But a month later, he was gone - apparently raided by C&E.
There was a case of someone collecting 25L samples from rail tankers parked on sidings. His "shed" backed on to the sidings. Apparently he knew when the train load of Diesel would park, so would collect a whole shed full of these samples in one evening and then flog them.
I was aware of someone siphoning the tanks of plant vehicles near me, I gave the Police a description and car reg. number, I even told them the reg. numbers of people buying, I told them when a few full cans were waiting for collection: they asked me to ring them again when they were being collected, I could not actually fathom whether they wanted me to make the arrest and lay the prosecution.
Just out of interest, why were they dipping YOUR tank? I've been driving diesels for 20 years and never been dipped. Did they have reason to suspect your car?
In one of the later series of "Car Wars", from time to time repeated on freeview TV., the series was based in Devon & Cornwall. It seemed that in that area the police (as opposed to HRMC) were dipping diesel tanks of any cars which had been stopped for any reason, no matter how trivial. When red was found, the car was impounded and HRMC was contacted for them to prosecute. Not sure if this was just for show as it was being filmed for TV, or whether that is the norm in that area........
Just out of interest, why were they dipping YOUR tank? I've been driving diesels for 20 years and never been dipped. Did they have reason to suspect your car?
In one of the later series of "Car Wars", from time to time repeated on freeview TV., the series was based in Devon & Cornwall. It seemed that in that area the police (as opposed to HRMC) were dipping diesel tanks of any cars which had been stopped for any reason, no matter how trivial. When red was found, the car was impounded and HRMC was contacted for them to prosecute. Not sure if this was just for show as it was being filmed for TV, or whether that is the norm in that area........
Sorry, that should have read "Road Wars".
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