Suspension bushes dying on a Ford Ka

In message , Peter Spikings writes

Its not too difficult a job to do if you have the correct tools. I think you need a 18mm open ended spanner for the nuts. I think you need a torx bit for the ball joint bolt. You will need a jack to compress the front springs when removing/fitting the arms.

Its easier to buy the complete arms. You would need a press to fit the new bushes. Be aware that the non genuine Ford arms don't last. The proper Ford arms/bushes only last 30k miles or so which is bad enough but aftermarket ones fail under 10k miles in my experience.

Hmm, the Haynes book doesn't say anything about compressing the springs :) It's pretty much to undo the ball joint securing bolt, prise the ball joint out of the hub carrier and undo the bolts holding the arm to the bracket on the chassis. Why do I need to compress the springs and do you mean use a jack on the bottom of the hub carrier?

I'll get the complete arm then.... I don't want to do this every 10k miles so I'll get Ford parts then, you're right about the wear time... I think it's just done 28k miles.

Shall I wait for the one of the bushes to fail completely before doing this or is that unwise?

Out of interest, would a garage charge £100 per (non-Ford) arm plus £100 labour for doing this? :D

Thanks,

Peter.

Because if you don;t compress the springs then as soon as you've taken the last bolt out of the chassis, the whole lot will shoot downwards with one hell of a bang.

Do you regard suspension as safety critical?

Yes but isn't the spring at it's natural length with the car jacked up and the wheel off? There's a photo in the Haynes book where the lower arm has been pulled out of the hub carrier and there are no supporting jacks in sight, surely that photo wouldn't have been possible if the spring was still pushing the carrier down unless they had used spring compression tools on the actual spring which there is no mention of. I wouldn't have thought it'd be good design to have the lower arm not have enough freedom of movement to accommodate the spring at it's natural length as then you have the problem we're talking about plus when the wheel is off the ground the spring will be stressing whatever part is stopping the arm moving.

Yes of course, however surely it can cope with a bush failing... Having looked around it seems as though bush failure causes tracking problems / tyre wear as well so yes, I'll do it soon.

Thanks,

Peter.

Just done our Ka bushes on front lower arms. Its not difficult, but you do need a few tools. The bushes were clonking all the time and the steering was a bit vague in the straight ahead position. Seem to be a consumable item on Ka's. I would leave the

As I have a press, I bought the bushes from Ford at £10 per side. If you can't get access to one locally, replacement arms are simpler. I think Ford ones were £50 per side and there are much cheaper ones around, but I guess they might not last as long(?) as original. You will need the tools mentioned plus a torque wrench for retightening, which means access to a socket set.

Didn't need spring compressor as the strut wasn't fiddled with. Put the arms on before connecting the ball joint. It might help to compress the strut with a jack under it to get it to fit, but I didn't need to.

Can't help with the top of the strut question, but you do need to hold the strut with an allen key whilst turning the nut. As it has a self-locking nut, if it isn't obviously loose, the problem, if there is one, may be elsewhere.

Good luck

John

Yes, I guess when the bushes go the lower arm suddenly has some sideways play in it hence steering / tracking problems and clonking when you start steering the opposite way to last time.

I would leave the what? :D

OK, going to have to ask this now... what's a press? :) I'll phone Ford to get a quote on new arms. I guess new arms are the way to go anyway as it'll mean replacing the front bush and balljoint all at the same time so I won't go through all that hassle and find that one of those has worn out next year.

I've got all the relevant tools.

Yup, that's what I thought.

Yeah, the MOT guy said it wasn't really a problem but I'm not convinced yet.

Thanks,

Peter.

No.

NOW it's at its natural length.

Most are designed that way.

as then you have the problem we're talking about plus when the

Well, it'll not drop to bits but depending on what bush it is, I've seen cars driving down the road with the rear wheel wobbling from side to side.

So you've answered your own question...no it can't because if it could, the tracking wouldn't change.

I missed a vital part out of describing the photo, in the photo the lower arm is directly underneath the carrier but not touching it (the ball joint is inserted upwards into the bottom of the carrier) while the lower arm is still attached to the chassis. As there are no jacks supporting the carrier then how come the carrier doesn't move down instead of the lower arm detaching if the spring isn't at it's natural length?

I don't think this one is. Can someone else settle this issue? The essential question is does one need to support the hub carrier on a Ka while one removes the lower arm? I can't see how no support could be dangerous as if the hub carrier was being pushed down it'd be impossible to get the ball joint out in the first place and to answer Conor's original point of:

-- Because if you don;t compress the springs then as soon as you've taken the last bolt out of the chassis, the whole lot will shoot downwards with one hell of a bang.

As others have said, it's far better to buy the genuine ford arms. They tend to last at least twice as long as any aftermarket ones. Changing them is relatively easy. Undo the bottom ball joint, get it out the hub carrrier, then remove the two other bolts. No spring compressors are needed (I don't know what some of the other posters are thinking about, but I've certainly never needed spring compressors to change a lower wishbone on a macpherson strut set-up)

Top strut mounting. Common problem (along with broken rear springs!). I know for mot purposes, provided there's no metal on metal contact, the mot tester's at my work don't fail them, although they may issue an advisory if they're starting to get quite bad.

Ford it is.

That's what I thought, the spring must fully relax when the wheels are in the air / off the car.

Is it worth getting hold of a ball joint removal tool? I suspect I won't have long to wait before doing this to my Fiesta.

Yeah, there's no metal on metal contact. Another poster suggested holding the strut in place with an allan key to tighten the top nut but suspect it's already tight enough anyway so what else can I look at?

Many thanks,

Peter.

The spring isn't fully relaxed when all the weight is of the car. There will still be enough preload on the spring, to do considerable damage, should you take something off that you shouldn't (ie the top strut nuts, that hold the top mount and spring in place).

It's not needed on these. Just undo the pinch bolt (always wise to get new ones, as they do have a tendancy to strip the threads off if they're a bit rusty), and find a suitable sized chisel to hammer into the slot to open up the hub carrier slightly so the ball joint slides out easier. You may have to find a large lever to lever the wishbone down and out though. Fiesta's are a similar set-up, but depending on the model, some have a bolt with a tendancy to snap (can't remember what model, but it's the ones with the horizontal front wishbone bolt).

The nut is likely to be tight enough. It tightens down on to a shoulder, so the actual tightening torque isn't that critical. But it may be wise to just check it's nipped up. If you don't hold the strut with an allen key, the strut just spins in the damper.

OK... what stops the carrier moving down if there's stress in the spring though? If I can get the suspension arm off the bottom it can't be that and the only things left that could stop it are the driveshaft (surely not) or the anti-roll bar (which must be it).

Ta, that's very helpful.

Yes, I found that :) If making sure that's tight doesn't sort it, what else could it be?

Thanks,

Peter.

Inside of the spring you have a damper. When you jack up the car, the damper extends to full length, where it then stops and keeps the spring preloaded. To fully unload the spring, you need to compress it, and then remove the top strut mounting/spring cap.

The actual top strut mount rubber wears, and that's what moves. If you move the strut while looking at the top under the bonnet, you'll see that the complete assembly is moving. The rubber parts should clamp down onto the bodywork, and stop everything moving.

Ah, I see...

I'll look at replacing that then...

Thanks for you help.

Peter.

In message , M Cuthill writes

I wasn't on about spring compressors, rather a jack under the hub. With the ball joint disconnected, the spring goes to full extension. When the wishbone is fitted to the subframe, the ball joint is quite a bit higher than its socket in the hub. If you jack the hub up you can bring the ball joint and socket to the same level, making it a lot easier to fit the ball joint.

Jacking under the hub won't work, and doing it to get the ball joint out will be dangerous.

When the ball joints out, there is nothing to stop the hub/strut moving about, meaning when you try jacking it up, the jack will just push it sideways. And if you load it up and then remove the ball joint, the hub/strut will spring sideways.

In message , M Cuthill writes

I only do it when refitting the arm. I admit that you do have to be careful to prevent the strut moving sideways.

OK, I finally got round to phoning Ford and asking for the arms. However I baulk at paying £85 (inc. VAT) for *each* arm which is after a 10% discount for buying two at once. Seems like a bit much to me, is that so? Now I'm tempted to get cheap ones on eBay / from above web site and being prepared to replace them every year / 18 months. Or should I just plump for the ones from Ford?

Grr :)

Peter.

I'm about to go through exactly the same operation as you describe Peter - our KA has split bushings and I'm looking at replacing the lower arms.

A couple of questions - if I buy the lower arms (e.g. from the website you cite) do I get the bushings as well? Are they already in place on the lower arms, so that I don't need a tool to push-fit them?

Also, Is this job possible with the front of the car up on axle stands?

And finally, the Haynes book tells me to replace the self-locking nuts when I fit the new lower arms... are these likely to come with the new arms and if not where would I get them?

Probably obvious questi> Peter Spik> >>>