Suspension design question

Yup :-)

The message from Peter Spikings contains these words:

Some suspension systems do use bearings instead of bushes - like the rear end of the Metro which had needle roller bearings in the swinging arm. They failed too, because unlike rubbers they need greasing and don't like salty gritty water.

Even then, they had to have rubber isolators between the subframe and the bodyshel, as you rightly identify, to keep the noise down. Anything too well connected is likely to be too harsh.

Wasn't that the top links at the front that had needle bearings? I thought the rears were journal bearings. Or am I just assuming they're the same as a Mini?

Mini had one needle roller and one plain bush per side at the rear.

Bloody dreadful design and a royal PITA to replace!

Chris

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

2cv. The arms are hung off the crossmembers on fookin' HYOOGE roller bearings - then the crossmembers are rigidly bolted to the chassis. There's no rubber on the tierods to the spring cans, either - and some versions of the basic design have the spring cans rigidly mounted to the chassis.

Those versions which had anti-roll bars didn't have any bushes for mounting those, nor are there any rubber bushes in the steering, or flexi-hoses in any of the brakes, either...

I think somebody at Citroen had it in for rubber manufacturers, tbh.

Doesn't seem to affect 'em.

The message from Ben C contains these words:

Needles each end of the rear swinging arm pivot, needles each end of the upper front wishbone pivot.

When in good condition good for handling. If you rubberise everything things get a little vague in the handling department.

I believe the upper fronts were needle roller too but most people forget about them.

My Mini had solid mounted subframes.

The message from snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk contains these words:

I remember a friend saying he didn't like Metros because they handled so badly. Which seemed odd 'cos I thought they were eminently chuckable. Turned out he'd been driving his girlfriend's and both rear subframe rubbers had delaminated. No wonder it squirmed.

Because if they didn't, you'd feel every single stone in the tarmac.

Some Triumphs had a sort of hinge as the outer joint on the rear, lower wishbone. Trouble is, the long bolt that it all hinges on is prone to rusting, then seizing in place. You're then into a really fiddly job of drilling the thing out, or replacing the whole wishbone. You don't get that problem with replaceable rubber bushes.