Unable to remove wheel

I just saw two blokes, who had jacked up a Nissan Micra, removed all the wheel nuts, but couldn't get the wheel off. Front wheel. Ah, the handbrake, maybe, but I suggested that and they took the brake off (but foot on the foot brake instead). Looked like a disk brake at the front. Still couldn't get the wheel off. So, hmmmm?

Reply to
GB
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Thats weird, perhaps it has corroded on to the hub badly and needs a bit of brute force ?

Reply to
Pete

GB formulated on Sunday :

Alloy wheel, they seize onto the steel hubs. The trick is to give the wheel edge a kick, or if that doesn't work, put the nuts back on but loose and drive the car back and forth jamming the brake on hard to shake it loose.

A bit of Copperslip between the faces would prevent it sticking.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

A bit of Copperslip would also make it likely that the wheel comes off under normal driving conditions. Contrary to what might seem like common sense the wheel nuts do not hold the wheel on. They merely force wheel and hub tightly together so that there is a high friction force between the two. It is this friction that turns the wheel - or stops it under braking. The studs themselves are not strong enough to cope with the forces generated under acceleration and braking.

It sometimes happens that lorries, when renovated by non-experts, have their wheel hubs painted on the grounds that it looks smart. Then they lose a wheel as the paint between wheel and hub allows the two surfaces to slip.

That's all.

Krak

Reply to
krak

You'd better tell all the manufacturers who recommend that some kind of grease is used to stop this from happening.

It seems they've been giving dangerous advice for years...

I think you're getting confused by the need to ensure that the centre bore matches the hub you're fitting the wheel to - as the studs / bolts aren't meant to locate the wheel on the hub, just hold it there.

Reply to
Steve H

krak explained :

...WRONG!

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

Been using copper grease between the wheels and hubs (and on the wheel-nuts/studs) for as long as I can remember (been driving for nearly 50 years) and *NEVER* had a wheel come off because of the grease.

Had a wheel come off a car once because a stupid tyre fitter forgot to tighten the wheel nuts (a newly qualified driver [daughter] was using my car at the time and didn't comprehend the initial signs of impending failure - she does now) - and now, *I* *MAKE* *SURE* I check the wheel nuts/studs after every wheel removal using a torque wrench (and reapplying the copper grease when 'mechanics' and half-baked tyre fitters have wiped it off).

The only 'side effect' of using copper grease is being able to easily get the wheel off at the side of the road using the standard gear supplied by the car manufacturers)

Reply to
Woodworm

Woodworm used his keyboard to write :

Must admit I have only used it for the past ten years, prior to which I just struggled to free seized on alloy wheels. During that time I have never had a wheel come adrift.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:25:59 +0200, krak dribbled:

Crack? Yes, sounds like you're on it. What a load of bollocks.

Reply to
Mike P

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 18:09:44 +0100, GB dribbled:

A good kick, or failing that, as I've had to do in the past with stuck 306 Alloys - loosen all nuts, and drive it back and forth a few times.

Reply to
Mike P

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 18:09:44 +0100, GB dribbled:

A good kick, or failing that, as I've had to do in the past with stuck 306 Alloys - loosen all nuts, and drive it back and forth a few times.

Reply to
Mike P

Rusted on. Apply much brute force.

Reply to
Duncan Wood
[...]

+1

+1

I find a second 'side effect'; it tends to make maintenance a bit messier. That's a small price to pay however.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

So, just how dumb are you?

The following might help you to understand this:

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Wheel(s) are held together by the clamping force that is exerted by the wheel nuts. Think of the wheel end system as a clutch. Just like a clutch in a transmission, if the force (clamp load) is not high enough the clutch (wheels) will slip.

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Ensure mounting surfaces of hub, drum and wheel are clean and free of paint or contaminants.

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The contact surfaces of the hub face and the wheels must be clean and free of contamination such as dirt, peeling paint, rust, grease, etc. to ensure proper clamping force. The studs should be clean and corrosion free, and the nuts should hand-turn onto the treads. Any resistance to hand-turning could indicate the stud has stretched and threads have deformed. The studs should be carefully examined and damaged studs replaced.

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Each wheel stud and nut, when properly tighten, delivers up to 50,000 lbs of clamping force. With 10 wheel studs and nuts, this becomes

500,000 lbs of clamping force. This clamp load produces high surface-to-surface contact friction that essentially glues the hub, drum, and wheel flanges together to prevent rotation. The surface-to-surface contact friction will prevent rotation during even the quickest panic stops. So regardless of brake hole size, the only way to successfully prevent slip and rotation is to keep the wheel nuts tightened correctly.

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Wheel Hub Mating Face - Don't Grease Just a reminder, and not wanting to teach anyone to suck eggs:

If you are changing your wheels DO NOT put any grease on the wheel to hub mating face. You can put some on the "Mounting Bored" to stop the wheel sticking.

From the manual:

On alloy wheels, use an approved anti-seize compound to treat the wheel mounting bore. This will minimise any tendency for adhesion between the wheel and the bore. Ensure that no compound comes into contact with the brake components or the flat mounting surfaces of the wheel.

The reason behind this is that the job of the wheel nuts is to hold the wheel super tight against the hub, not to take any "sheering" force themselves.

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So, carry on greasing if you want to live dangerously. Hell, far as I am concerned you can oil your brakes too.

Krak.

Reply to
krak

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So yes, you are on Krak.

go here...

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and search for the word "copper"

You'll find...

"Whenever the wheels are removed, coat their mounting faces with copper-based anti-seize compound (the aluminium alloy wheels can seize onto the hubs)"

"Copper-based anti-seizing compound". That would be Copaslip then, just like everyone has been saying.

Reply to
Mike P

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Or how about this further down in that information>

There are other maintenance conditions that can also cause joint failure or lack of preload. Wheels may also come loose if the desired tension is not reached during installation by any one or combination of the following conditions:

. Wheels not torqued properly

. Threads on wheel bolt not properly oiled

. Nuts not properly oiled

. Corrosion on threads of the wheel bolts or nuts

. Worn damaged or stripped threads on the wheel bolts or nuts

. Mixed or improper fastener type for wheel

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I do that too using copper grease - always on the mating metal contact surfaces of disc pads and brake shoes, also on all the sliding components of disc callipers and wheel cylinders (taking great care *NOT* to contaminate any actual braking surface or rubber boots with the stuff.

And I reiterate, that in the many years that I have used copper grease in the situations that you have stated, I have *NEVER* had a problem with *ANY* component loosening or 'falling' off because of it.

At the end of the day though, it would appear that you have been very selective in what you have copied here - and not fully understood what you have read.

Reply to
Woodworm

Congratulations for the best bit of BS I've read for ages.

So no wheels are ever painted? Have you told the car makers about this?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , GB writes

Skipping all the arguments about the friction between two surfaces preventing the wheel from coming loose, it was my impression that each wheel nut sank into an indentation in the wheel.

Thus, as the nuts were tightened progressively by going around the wheel tightening each in turn, the wheel was pulled into perfect alignment, and the nut and indentation in the wheel resisted any rotational slip.

I must go look at my wheel nuts tomorrow to see whether they have abandoned that clever design. ;-)

Reply to
Gordon H

Most cars and car based vans I've looked at use conical nuts or bolt heads. Larger vehicles started using spigot mounted wheels a long time ago. These need to be tightened using a torque wrench, and all surfaces need to be clean and free of lubricants, and the torque confirmed after a few dozen miles, at least according to Scania and Volvo.

Some old commercials in preservation still use handed threads and conically seated wheelnuts which self tighten as you drive. You do these up with a normal wheelbrace, and need a length of scafold pole to undo them after a few miles.

Reply to
John Williamson

Depends on the design of wheel. Taper nuts used to be common with steel wheels, but ally may not have this.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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