Hi, my name is God Shield. I belong to a survival group called Water 4 gas. We teach people to convert their cars to water hybrids. Part gasoline, part water. Saves money and cleans the environment. It's very simple and you learn how to make it yourself. Or have your mechanic do it for you. But what's unique about us is that we hold no secrets! You get all the information, a written permission to replicate and several ways to earn money. Our strategy is this: if there are many of us around the world, the motion cannot be stopped!
Son has already downloaded the drawings/information of this conversion from the 'net some two years ago (he's an engineer) - had a look at the info and found that it was not really a feasible job to do, or really worth the effort.
IIRC, all it does basically is run an electric current through water to get the hydrogen and stores it under pressure in a tank in the boot (very simplified).
Anyone with a basic grasp of physics will tell you that you can't use a car alternator to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, run engine from said hydrogen and oxygen and expect it to work. If it did, you'd have invented perpetual motion and you'd have no need to go spamming newsgroups.
With all due respects to you - it will work [after a fashion]!
All you need is the knowledge of how to put the thing together, time and some engineering/electrical skills - and a big, big, big boot to put the
*hydrogen* storage tank in.
With regards to "you can't use a car alternator to split water into hydrogen" - you can actually use a car alternator to run 240 volt electical appliances by using an inverter - the real secret is to *turn* the alternator's drive pulley (using the vehicle's engine of course) to produce the 12 or 24 volt current - ergo, if it can do that, it can be used to produce hydrogen!
And that's how it's done Stanley - start the engine using petrol as the fuel to drive the alternator that produces the current to convert water into hydrogen - I must have a look for those plans, I'm sure I have a copy here somewhere!!
Fuck me. You put in (for example) 100J of petrol into your engine. That turns into about 50J of movement and 50J of heat. Then if your alternator and hydrogen splitter work really well, you might turn that 50J of movement into 45 joules worth of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then you put that back into your engine, and get out 22.5J of movement and 22.5J of heat. Spot a pattern yet?
Yes, you can crack hydrogen using a cars alternator (and I never said you couldn't). You could even store it in a tank. Will it save you any fuel? No. Basic schoolboy physics for crying out loud. I really do despair at the absolute thickness of people.
How can this make sense? The current required to electrolyse the water isn't free, you have to burn fuel (at very poor efficiency) to get it. The hydrogen you get back won't repay the energy put into it. The only way this could make sense would be if the average engine generated large amounts of electricity at zero additional cost - in which case you might as well charge up a battery from it.
Hit a rwa nerve have I by having the gall to question your reply?
I did say say that it was *NOT" feasible did I not - and since you wish to be a little abusive, please learn to read and you would have seen that in my OP?
And you did say "Anyone with a basic grasp of physics will tell you that you can't use a car alternator to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, run engine from said hydrogen and oxygen and expect it to work" did you not?
And now you are saying that you can - so stop f*****g contradicting yourself you egotistical idiot!
BTW, After reading some of your posts in th eDIY groups, you ain't all that clever yourself really are you?
You also said that it would work after a fashion. The general tone seemed to be "it's a lot of hassle and aggro, but it can work". The fact is, there is no way for it to work as the maker claims (ie, as any sort of fuel saving device or as a method of running the car using only water). You can generate hydrogen and pump it back round into the inlet, but all you'll do is reduce economy due to the all the losses involved and the weight of carting a load of water around. This scam has been going around for years and has been disproven numerous times. The best you could ever hope to do would be to run the car on petrol for a while, store some hydrogen up and then cut off the fuel supply to let the engine run soley on the gas, but I doubt you could store enough to run for a few seconds in any ordinary sized car.
It can work - and in fact cars were running on various 'gasses' including hydrogen in WW2 when petrol was extremely short - although not by using the method in question.
You can in fact get an engine to run on "water" - after a fashion, and exactly as you say, by starting on petrol and then changing to the gas once sufficient hydrogen has been produced - and that the weight of water etc would make it inefficient - ergo the fact that it is not a feasible.
So to recap:
1 It is technically possible by using this method, to propel a car on hydrogen (after a fashion).
2 It will not work efficiently enough to make any difference to the cash in your pocket - and in fact, if you try the conversion you will have to spend a lot to get nowhere - better to run on LPG.
3 It is a scam only in the fact that claims described on the information my son had were impossible to achieve (I did not read the spam here) on the engineering principles described to manufacture hydrogen using a cars electrical system from water.
And yes, it is a lot of aggro and hassle - but it will work, but not, as you rightly say, "to work as the maker claims" - take it from me, my son is a very clever engineer, both technically and practically (and like me, a little tight fisted where petrol is concerned) and if it was possible to have got the thing running economically, he would have done so.
These are now my last words on this subject - goodnight.
Without powering the alternator from something other than the engine, it's impossible.
The electricity from the alternator isn't free - it takes fuel to produce it, unless you're engine braking. So the only possible way you could make it work is as a form of regenerative braking. You'd need to devise a circuit which turned the electrolysis on only when the brake pedal was pressed and the car in motion.
Now considering how much time anybody who is genuinely tight fisted where fuel is concerned spends on the brakes, how much hydrogen do you think you'd make?
But you've not described any of that, instead you've just described a reasonably conventional perpetual motion machine (or variant thereof).
I too know well-qualified and clever engineers who believe that such things are possible - but unlike you, I know they're wrong.
FWIW anybody who wants a giggle can take a look at what are probably the plans at
formatting link
formatting link
points to it, but the associated links are amusing too in their complete and utter nuttiness.("Water is like a battery containing a huge amount of energy in potential: namely, the hydrogen and oxygen itself") clive
If you can just solve _only_ the engineering problem of making a workable hydrogen tank for cars, you should be able to make yourself rich enough to be carried around on a litter for the rest of your life. Even if the stuff grew on trees, we still haven't got that part of the problem worked out yet.
Theoretically possible, maybe. In practice, utterly pointless. A good, hefty alternator produces 1200W. You'd be lucky to get 85% electrolysis efficiency, which gives you 1000W worth of hydrogen. A typical car engine has an output of 50kW, which means a fuel input of around 150kW. So an hour's worth of hydrogen production would get you a staggering 24 seconds of running. Wow. But that's not the worst bit ...
... because it will make a difference to the cash in your pocket. Generating that 1000W of hydrogen will have required 3600W of petrol. So you'll be out of pocket, without even taking account of the "conversion" costs.
You need a better definition of a scam?
I'm a very clever engineer too. Trust me. It's crap.
The normal - and utterly mistaken - claim is that by sing fancy pulses to electrolyse the water you can excite the H-O bonds at a resonant frequency and break them with lower than usual enery. All it really shows is that home experimenters can't afford electrical instrumentation capable of measuring the power in pulsed waveforms.
Stanley Meyer was the boy for this sort of thing. Convicted of "gross and egregious fraud" for it, too.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.