215/40-R16 Yokohama S.Drive tires

You're obviously not going to drive in snow, and the Toyo T1R is a better tire. Especially in the wet.

Really?

I've done some checking and a lot of people seem to think a lot about the S.Drive's wet weather performance.

Both are considered quite good but since you didn't ask about tires, I won't espouse the virtues of my favorites ;-). I will throw out for consideration, my wheels which, imo offer the best combination of looks / weight / price and, not necessarily in that order. I bought the Ultraleggera by OZ Racing. They are 16x7 and a few years ago they were $210 each. Actually I have had in my head that they were ~$180 each but since I don't 'trust' my head, I went and checked the receipt ;-). They are a little bit of a pain in the a_s to keep clean but after having the super light BBS Miata wheels for 5 years, these seemed a breeze in relative terms ;-). You can see them here:

I believe these are 14.5lbs each. There are a few lighter / cheaper wheels out there but I definitely factored in looks. These are made in Italy and they are quality items.

Good luck, Chris

99BBB

Lots of summer tires are very good in the wet. The T1R is a notch or two better than that, with significantly more grip under all conditions. In addition, it's very lightweight and has an amazingly-plush ride. However, its turn in is not very crisp, which bothers some folks.

I've used up three sets of Toyos, and was always quite happy with them. Now I'm trying the Bridgestone RE-11, which is more of a track tire. It's completely different, and won't be everyone's cup of tea, but its grip and predictability are astonishing.

Every tire is a set of compromises. If you list your priorities, we can offer better recommendations. How many miles per year do you drive? What temperature range? How hard do you drive? What's your budget?

Hmmm....

I drive about 12,000km (8,000 miles) a year--a lot of it quite boring city driving, but I value the miles I can get on the winding roads near Vancouver. There is some highway driving, but I'm not a daily commuter in that sense. I do some winter driving on snowy roads, but I managed that alright when I as on my last set of 205/40 tires even when they had very little tread left.

The temperatures range of my day to day driving is from just below freezing to around 30C (86F) in the summer. This being Vancouver, there is a lot of wet weather driving.

My budget for wheels and tires this go around is probably a maximum of $2,000.

I liked the look of my last set of 16" wheels, and I want to keep that rim size, but I'm going to work hard to get the lightest combination of wheels and tires in that size. My last wheels were Ronal R20s and I've since learned that they were probably about 22 lbs a piece. The tires were Goodrich Euro T/As which must have been pretty light for their size because I've weighed the combination at 39 lbs.

From what I've seen, I can probably get wheels that weigh under 15 lbs with having to break the bank (the BBS RG-F wheels at Tirerack are gorgeous and superlight, but $495 is just too much; although the do have the 15" size on sale for $344...). The OZ Allegerita's are 13.6 lbs and $219, the Enkei RPF1s are the same price and only 0.1 lbs more. The Enkei PF01s are 14 lbs, $228 and have an odd number of spokes (which for some reason, I just like). For less expensive wheels, there are Konig's offerings at Goodwin Racing (I like the Daylite's in gold).

I'm wonder what offset to run. I'm going to buy new suspension bits and lower the car a little (but nothing crazy). I loved the way my previous wheels (I'm back on the old steel set this winter) filled the wheel wheels, but I can't find an offset value for the Ronal R20s, so I'm a bit in the dark. I know I'm not inclined to depart too far from the factory values so as to keep the steering geometry as designed.

Thoughts, folks?

Spring is coming and I'm considering doing the whole schmeer in one go. Working inward: wheels and tires, big brakes, new suspension bits.

Yup. Like those. I like their Alleggerita even better and it's lighter by about a pound (and about $20 more, of course).

See my other post for a few more. :-)

Alan, it's not just a matter of tread. If you must drive on ANY amount of snow, even just to get back into your driveway, then all summer tires are out. Their rubber compound gets hard in low temperatures, and driving in snow or ice is not just difficult, it's physically impossible. You'll need to limit your search to all-season tires, or resolve to leave the Miata home until the roads are clear. Summer tires also lose grip in cold weather, but they have so much to start with, it's not unsafe, merely limiting.

Lanny, with respect, I think you're overstating the case.

The Euro T/As I used to drive were very much summer tires, and they worked in winter. It was not "physically impossible" by any stretch, and in fact -- by dint of skill -- I was often able to negotiate snowy roads more ably than less skill drivers in 4WD vehicles with all-season tires.

I'm just relating personal experience.

Just for kicks, I once backed halfway down my short, snow-covered driveway. I could stop, barely; I set the handbrake, had my wife give the car a push with one hand, and slid all the way to the street (which was clear). With the rear tires at the curb, I let the clutch out in first, got out of the car, and watched the tires churn slowly at idle. This was with T1Rs, and I would call it a total lack of snow grip.

Perhaps your snow is different. Wetter, because Vancouver doesn't get very cold? I've driven my Miata in snow exactly once, because the snow arrived early and a meeting ran too long. It was 15°F, I had Dunlop D60s, and 1/4" of dry snow was scary over 30 mph.

I normally enjoy driving in snow, and I'm good at it, but Miatas are rotten in snow without proper tires.

I've driven my Miata in Edmonton in snow with OEM 14" tires and in Vancouver 205/40-VR16 B.F. Goodrich Euro T/As--even when they were close to bald...

..and I've made it work. :-)

But, yes: here in Vancouver it is mostly within a few degrees of freezing. And it is unlikely that even 5% of my miles will be on snow.

That having been said, I'll take the new rubber out on an empty parking lot the first time there's a chance to test them on snow. If they're unworkable, I'll but the steel wheels with four snow tires back on for the duration.

I like to see a man with a plan, and that's a good one. Cheers!

Having lived in Alberta and Vancouver, I always thought snow and ice was a bit less difficult when it was really cold, say -20C or colder.

I've only been in one accident in my life that was my fault, and it was a rainy February night in Kitsilano with near freezing temps. A jaywalking pedestrian popped out from between two parked cars and the car in front slammed on the brakes. I did too, and skidded into him.

On winter or all-season tires, perhaps. Not on summer tires.

All-seasons. The only people I knew who had summer tires had multiple sets of wheels and didn't mind swapping every six months.

I had summer tires on my Miata from 1994 until very recently; at times very bald summer tires. My B.F. Goodrich Euro T/As got very bald towards the end, but I successfully negotiated occasional drives on snow-covered roads even when the temp was truly below freezing.

Granted: it's not something I'd want to do if it was going to be all the time...

...but it wasn't instant loss of all traction; not even close.

But as I've already said, if whatever tires I eventually get don't work out that way, then I'll be mounting the old steel wheels with snows next winter.

What I'm not going to do is change the fact that I want proper high performance tires good in the dry and definitely good in the wet because I may need to change tires for 3 months of the year.

:-)

Alan, Wanted to comment on this thread, but I cannot find spec ratings for the Euro T/As since it appears to be discontinued, so take this with a grain (or more) of salt. Not sure that the Euro was truly a summer tire. Some references to it that I found said it was an all-season tire. That can be significant. The high performance tires have a tread compound that will get very hard at freezing temperatures, and tend to have very few sipes (those little cuts in the tread area) to let the tread area flex. That said, you can extend their range by lowering the tire pressure so that the tread warms up more in the cold. That works for short drives, but will cause excessive wear on longer drives. The pressure changes do not help for ice or snow.

I have not driven The Euros or the S.drives, but I am looking to get the S.drives for my '06.

The last performance tires I had on the '93 were Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s which I loved. Lowering the air pressure kept them drivable down to freezing, but they were useless in the snow or on ice. That was with manual trans and limited slip. Not recommended unless you enjoy high blood pressure and adrenaline anxiety, and I consider myself an excellent snow and ice driver with a lot of experience in New England winters.

I purchased the '06 used, and the original tires were nearly gone. Put Eagle F1 All Season tires on it for a start hoping that they would give me some performance, and be reasonable for some limited snow and ice. They were a disappointment. Performance was not bad, but they were no good in snow, especially without limited slip. Anything that required even speed maintaining acceleration could result in tail wag if one tire had a little less traction. Most embarrassing was not being able to move the car at all (just wheel spin) from its parking place after a snow storm. The parking place is only a few degrees from flat.

The bigger disappointment with the F1 All Seasons, was that the tread belts seemed to separate near the end of their life, so they became noisy and rough. Neither of these seem to be made in Miata sizes anymore, so they are no longer a comparison point.

The '06 now has some Michelin X-ice on it with a second set of wheels so it is drivable in the snow we get here in SE PA. A world of difference, but they sure are not performance tires. Cornering speed possible is way down, of course part of that is that I went to 195/55

16 from 205/45/17. But I got them so that winter driving was not a scary proposition.

I look forward to the S.drives in a month or so, and would like to hear your experience if you go that way.

I put the S.drives on last year and ran them pretty hard through the summer, including a couple days on the track. They were a bit noisier than the last set of tires (OEM Bridgestone Turanza) but held the road quite well, even in rain. Cornering was a joy and I was only able to get a couple of chirps out of them all season.

That said, they totally suck once the temperature gets below about 45F. My '04 currently has cheap 15" wheels and Blizzak snow tires on right now. I used to run Blizzaks on the '90 for the winter as well here in eastern PA.

Iva & Vixen

2004 Classic Red No more winkin' Miata

Sure. When you turn the steering wheel sharply, there's a slight delay before the car responds, until the slack is taken out of the soft sidewall and the tread bites decisively. If you initiate the turn smoothly and progressively, you might not even notice, but it apparently makes some folks crazy. I adapted in 15-20 minutes, by turning in a fraction of a second earlier. I consider this a characteristic, not a problem.

The pliant carcass also gives the T1R a wonderfully smooth, velvety ride, and an uncanny ability to ignore broken pavement or gravel on the road. It just keeps gripping without drama.

I must warn you that any aggressive summer tread can hum on certain types of concrete pavement. My T1Rs were very quiet on asphalt.

Plan on replacing the T1R after three years, regardless of tread remaining. They'll be too hard by then to work well in the wet.

I had three sets of these tires. I'm currently on Bridgestone RE-11s, just because I wanted to try something different...which they are indeed.