Dealer Story (sad to think how often something like this happens)

And if you close your eyes, Tinkerbell will live.

The most frightening thing about the Japanese is that we've atom-bombed them twice and it doesn't seem to have had much effect.

It happens daily. And why shouldn't it, since it's probably successful 80% of the time. It's the easiest money they can make. Too many people are too easy.

Reminds me of a "deal" I had to purchase a used Miata from a dealer several years ago. I had a "deal" to purchase the car for around $4500+tax, drive-away. (This was a couple dollars over blue-book for one in xcln condition) A day later when I walked in with my check to sign papers and drive away, the "final" price for my $4500 car was now over $7500! Included in the "final" price (other than the expected sales tax) were the usual scam items such as the $300 VIN etching fee, (What? They didn't do that to this car the

1st time around?) a $400 "processing fee", $700 for a new rear window, (which the salesman had already told me they had done at a local shop for $150) a "detail" fee, and a bunch of other "nonsense fees" that I don't even remember.

Geeze, did I look like that much of a mark? (For another $7.5k I could have just bought a brand new one!) Needless to say, I told the sales manager that I wasn't about to pay a $3k premium to buy his car, and that if I had planned on paying $7,500 for a used Miata, I could easily find one half as old with half the miles for that price. (and I wouldn't have to pay the sales tax from a private party either)

After walking out, I got a call a few hours later from another salesman, pleading the dealerships case. "We've got overhead, ya know?" Don't care. I had a budget of $5k for this project (including tax) and that was going to be it. I didn't care how they allocated that $5k. They finally met my price, and told me that that they did so by lowering the price of the car, so that all the fees could be accomodated. Whatever.

Not that they didn't try to get me in the end. I've purchased houses with less paperwork than this! And they did try to wiggle out of the promised warranty when they presented me with the "as-is" disclaimer. I again threatened to walk before they gave in.

Needless to say, I will be buying no future cars from this dealer. If they were so much trouble over a $5k used car, I can only imagine what a mess buying a $20k+ new car would be like, with all additional "options" they can try to scam you with.

The rules have to be: Negotiate the "final" price. Nothing gets signed, and nothing gets paid until everything is in writing, and it is absolutely correct. And "wanting" a car too badly to walk away from any deal that feels funny is the certain path to getting screwed. Remember, be patient. After all, they are staying up nights making these things.

John

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (JohnMcGrew) wrote: [Reply posted to group and cc: to author as a courtesy (if no 'spam guard')] Please do not reply directly to the e-mail

It means that people who feel they've been screwed should try means other than threatening legal action as their first step.

And exactly what would those means be? How do you deal with somebody who has already demonstrated that they have no interest or intent to deal ethically?

John

A nice idea, but just shooting the bastards gets you into trouble.

Well, as of yesterday it is clear that falling short on agreements for the RX-8 is a much bigger problem than just at a dealership level. It's an issue for Mazda (/Ford) as a corporation. The window sticker clearly stated:

"ENGINE/MECHANICAL FEATURES o 1.3L ROTARY ENGINE WITH 247HP"

...but, after significant questioning by some RX-8 owners who had the car independently dyno'd (NOT Arthur-Andersen LLDyno), the Mazda website has now revised this figure:

"The RX-8 6-speed comes standard with all the performance and handling features available. This includes the 238 hp RENISIS engine..."

(From

04Alt - I am such a fan of Mazda rotary sports cars that they could have told me that the RX-8 produces 200hp and that they were charging $30,000 MSRP and I would have been a satisfied buyer. But making an agreement to sell a 247hp car at MSRP and then me ending up with a ~238hp car (the squiggle represents how trust has been lost) for >$1,300 in excess of the agreed upon MSRP and I find myself in the sad position of planning to have Mazda buy the vehicle back from me.

(I haven't seen the official word on this yet, but RotaryNews.com is reporting that those who have bought the RX-8 with the inflated hp stat will have the option of having Mazda buy it back:

6 ) Unlike my one particular dealership, I expect that Mazda as a corporation has much greater motivation to follow through on their offer to buy back the car. After that, I can start back at square one (while driving my old 2ndGen RX-7 in the interim).

Here's a quote taken from the President of Mazda's 2003 New Year's Message:

"In addition, later this spring, the long-awaited Mazda RX-8 is scheduled to make its debut. This will be a truly historic event for Mazda. The key to the success of all of these activities is undoubtedly the enhancement of quality and customer satisfaction." (From

I see Mazda making excellent products. The RX-8 strikes me as an exceptional value (even at lower-hp-rating/higher-price). A simple way to facilitate customer satisfaction is to only make commitments that you will follow through on.

Someday I will be a wholly satisfied owner of the Mazda RX-8. But right now I am looking to get my money back.

~ ROCK8

We just got an interesting phone call from the dealership. We have an Rx8 on order (factory order). They said that they have some good news for us. Since the vehilce HP is about 5 HP below what was specified, they are giving us: Free maintenance for ( 4 years, as I recall) a $500 debit card.

What is really interesting, is that it is more like a 12 HP drop and somehow this is suppose to be good news.

I was also wondering, there is no drop in the Torque? This would be the more critical measurement for day-to-day fun driving. (IMHO)

ROCK8 wrote:

04> Alt -

It's just a number either way. The critical measurement is the width of your smile while you're driving. If the test drive is not satisfactory, then the fudged numbers give you a good excuse to cancel the sale. Otherwise, who cares what the instruments said?

Tim Herbst

94 VR Base, definitely not stock, never been on a dyno

OK, the BBB can't "go after someone". All they can do is threaten to revoke that company's membership and file a complaint in their own system. They can't fine anyone anything.

It has nothing to do how much the payments go up. That's precisely how car salesmen rip people off--the whole "But your payment will only go up $17 a month." That "little bit" every month adds up.

Ok, i phrased that wrong. The BBB assisted me in finding the correct channels to ...ahem... point out thier infraction to them in a monetary way. I got nothing out of it but the satisfaction they hopefully will think twice before doing that again. Rules are there for a reason.

Your story is precisely why I will never pre-order a car again. When dealers order a car "for" you, and take your deposit, they feel they no longer have to fear that you will buy a car at another dealership. So they play fun little games like selling your car to a walk-up for MSRP + $5,000, then telling you that your car fell off the truck while they were unloading it and was declared a total loss and they'll have to order you another one.

The one (and only) time I pre-ordered a car, I found several others available at other dealerships, just sitting on the lot waiting to be purchased, several weeks before "my" car was due to arrive. Never again!