Engine dead at 41K

My 99 Miata recently started stalling when the clutch was depressed.

I took it for service and was told that the engine was extremely worn and had to be replaced. The service guy there, who claims 20-something years of Mazda experience, says he never saw anything like this. He said it probably wasn't worth replacing the engine and that I should think about getting a new car.

No one I've talked to thinks it's reasonable for an engine to be dead at

41K miles. That, and the fact that they cannot explain the problem makes me very uncomfortable about the idea of buying another Mazda.

Doing some internet research I think the problem might be related to service bulletin 014/00R, "Ratting noise from engine". It describes a manufacturing defect affecting some 99-00 miatas (also some proteges) that leads premature wear of the thrust bearings and excessive crankshaft endplay.

That's as far as the sevice bulletin goes but if the problem goes uncorrected it will eventually lead to the bearings wearing out and the engine will start grinding itself up. This is according to other internet sources I've read and it makes sense to me. The wear of the engine will cause metal shavings to fall into the oil and be distributed around the engine causing extreme wear throughout the engine.

The Mazda tech guy claimed that the oil did in fact look very dirty, in spite of the fact that the oil was just changed at 40K.

So this theory makes sense to me. Does anyone alse have experience with this?

What I would like is to have Mazda acknowlege this defect and take responsibility for it but the car is about 1 year and 5K miles out of warranty.

Today I've brought my Miata into a different dealer for service and I'm bringing a copy of the service bulletin. Hopefully they will tell me that the defect described is the cause of the engine failure. Then I suppose that the next step is to talk to Mazda directly.

Any other ideas about how this should be approached?

Reply to
Dave
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What aspect of the motor is so worn?

The answer to this question will give some indication of the cause and the best treatment.

It's not. There must be a reason.

It would make me uncomfortable about the mechanic, not the car. They should be able to provide more detail than "worn out", along with possible causes. The car is no more than 5 years old; if there is no mistreatment then many car manufacturers would give serious considation to at least partial compensation to repair/replace the motor.

Eeeeks. And has the car been serviced by a Mazda dealer after the date of that service bulletin?

"Polite but concerned and dissapointed", rather than aggressive is probably the bst way to approach Mazda and convince them to help you.

Reply to
Graham

Reply to
Wolfgang Bley

What?? That makes no sense at all. A 5-year old Miata with

41K miles is practically new. Unless there's something pretty badly wrong with the rest of the car I don't see how it's not worth putting an engine in. I woudln't it would cost more than 2-3K USD to put in an engine. Does your mechanic think you can buy a 5-year old Miata with 41K miles for 2-3K? Is he getting kickbacks from the sales staff at the local dealer? I suppose he offered to buy the car from you...

And nobody in their right mind would not put an engine in unless the body was falling apart.

I think your mechanic is incompetent. If all he told you was the engine was "extremely worn" he's not telling you anything. What exactly is worn? What lead him to this conclusion? Bad compression numbers? Crankshaft play? Piston slapping noises? Why does he thing the rest of the car is trash?

Who is "they"?

Ouch, that sucks. I guess it pays to have the car checked over thouroughly before the warranty expires.

Reply to
Grant Edwards

He said the engine was just generally and extremely worn but he specifically blamed the stalling problem I was having on excessive play in the crank shaft.

Well, I guess I was projecting into the future a bit. I should have said that if neither the first or second Mazda guy can explain or fix the problem and Mazda will not fix the problem I'd be hesitant to buy another Miata. I paid 25K and in 4 years the car is practically worthless. I expected to get a good 4 years of no car payments.

And this is my 2nd Miata. I had a 92 before this one.

Yes. The Bulletin was originally released in 99 and was updated in

2000. I had had the car in for various minor things and then also I brought it to them at 30K (although beyond the 3yr warranty limit) for routine maintenance and I was told that everything was good.

I've been impressed with Mazda's service in the past and I'm trying to remain optimistic but this problem is going to be expensive for someone. I hope it's not me.

Another problem is that I've not been good about saving maintenance receipts so if they want me to prove I've had the oil changed regularly I might not be able to do that. I usually go to what ever Lube Stop or Jiffy Lube or whatever. I guess I could go to some of the places near me that I think I've been to and see if they can reprint the receipts for past service.

Reply to
Dave

Thanks. I was told my Mazda Guy #1 (#2 is looking at it today) that Mazda no longer makes that motor so the best I could do is a rebuilt used motor.

Reply to
Dave

I want to think the best of these people but, afterwards, I was trying to figure that out. He made a rough estimate that the used engine would cost about $3500. I checked online and 99 Miatas are still going for prices in the teens (if they have an engine). So, yeah, I began to wonder why the engine wasn't worth replacing.

The body and everything else seems to be in good shape. I don't race the car or anything.

They did in fact offer to take the car as a trade in and then showed me this 2003 Miata with 17K they could give me a break on if I could decide before the ned of the year (which was the next day).

So, like I said, I want to think the best of them but it's just not adding up. My engine dies inexplicably (or soon will be dead actually. It's still running today), they say it's not worth repairing but I could buy a new car and they have this good deal but I need to decide tomorrow???

You're confiming my suspicions that the car should be repaired.

Yeah, the body's fine.

Crankshaft play was what was causing the stalling problem which was the first symptom. He also judged that there was extreme wear from the amount of engine noise.

"They" is Mazda through the service department I brought my Miata to. Incidentally, it's also the place I bought the Miata new.

I'm hoping the cause can be tied to the manufacturing defect identified in the service bulletin I mentioned. Then I further hope that Mazda would take responsibility for not detecting and fixing the problem before the defect destroyed my engine and replace the engine themselves.

Thanks for your comments. You're making more sense to me than that Mazda guy.

Reply to
Dave

Mazda Guy #1 is, shall we say, less than honest.

Reply to
Matthew Russotto

So you can still get new 99 Miata motors? Or new motors that are equivalent? That makes me more enouraged to go for the Motor replacement.

I love the car and don't look forward to the idea of getting a new or used anything else but, I can't see buying a third Miata if Mazda is going to leave me with a ruined engine after 41K miles. Fixing the existing car would be great. I would like Mazda to take the responsibility though.

Reply to
Dave

Your last comments are right on the money. At the bare minimum and if all else fails during negotiations, ask for a 50/50 "goodwill" on the engine replacement. Sometimes if GM feels the problem is theirs, they will offer to split the repair bill down the middle soon after warranty expires. Maybe Mazda will feel the same way....who knows? I myself would be pissed if it turned out to be the well documented defect that was not corrected even with the service bulletin.

Fight the good fight and keep us posted!

Reply to
Mike

Thanks. From the comments here it's sounding to me that the best thing would be to get a new or used engine even if I have to pay for it myself. Hopefully I will not have to.

I took the car to a different dealer today, service bulletin in hand. We'll see if that makes any difference in the diagnosis or the offered remedy. I should hear something in a few hours.

However, If I need to fix this problem out of my pocket, or it can't be fixed, I will really be turned off of Mazdas, which kills me because I really like the Miata.

Reply to
Dave

Sounds like a scam to me: Tell the mark his engine is "worn out" and the car isn't worth fixing, then offer him squat as trade-in value. It could be there's something wrong with your engine, and it may actually need replacing or rebuilding, but I'd leave that place and never go back.

At least get an opinion from an independant mechanic who doesn't have any motivation to tell you to trade it in.

[...]

Sounds like you need to find a different dealer to me

If you're persistent you probably can get some money out of Mazda. It make take some effort (both to get to the right person and to not start yelling at them).

Reply to
Grant Edwards

Even if you do -- keep all the paperwork, and start working your way up the food chain at Mazda. Be patient, don't yell, don't ask for a free car, and you might end up with a check for part of the engine rebuild.

It sounds like you got a double-lemon (bad car and bad dealer). The same thing could have happened with any other maker.

Reply to
Grant Edwards

...

That's why I bought the 100k warranty for $800. That way, my '00 wont break until I have 103K miles on it!

In the first 55k miles, all I have done is oil changes, tires and plugs and wires.

Joe

Reply to
Joe

Have you actually established that the car needs that kind of fixing?

And that it's not stalling due to a loose spark plug wire or something? iAnd that the whole "worn out engine" line isn't a crock?

Reply to
r l reid

Yeah, It sure sounds that way. It's hard for me to accuse someone who I've talked to face to face of scamming me but if I heard the story from someone else, I'd be thinking scam.

The dealer I have the car at today is an actual dealer but it looks like they've gotten out of the Mazda line. There were none in their showroom. It's all volkswagen now. Perhaps they will not feel compelled to sell me something.

I hope so. I mean, I've got the money but, I would much rather use it for something other than a car repair.

Reply to
Dave

It could, but it hasn't. I'd feel kindof feel foolish though buying another Mazda. Like -

Gee, you say my car is dead in 41K miles and you don't know why? Can I give you another $25K for another one?

Reply to
Dave

I can see it now - "yeah, we got out of Mazdas because they're unreliable. Perhaps we could make you a great deal on a Volkswagen"

Dana

Reply to
Dana Myers

I took my Miata to a second Mazda dealer yesterday. I did not tell them that I had already taken my car to Mazda for service. I told him the original symptom, that the car stalls when the clutch is depressed unless you give it some gas, and the symptoms that were pointed out by the Mazda guy #1 at the dealership where had the car a few days earlier, which were a lot of engine noise and oil leaking from the front of the engine.

I also showed him a copy of the service bulletin 014/00R, "Rattling noise from engine" and told him that I thought my car was suffering from this manufacturing defect.

They looked at it and claimed that my car is indeed suffering from the problem described in the service bulletin. They also said that although they believe that the bulletin is legitimate, they do not have, or cannot get the bulletin themselves (I don't know if they have printed or computerized records of service bulletins). That makes me nervous about Mazda's willingness to deal with this problem.

He further said that he tried to deal with Mazda on my behalf and "got nowhere".

Unlike Mazda guy #1 this guy said that new parts WERE available and that the repair would cost $3300. He didn't think the whole engine needed to be replaced just the partial engine as described in the service bulletin. I told them that I wanted to take the issue up with Mazda myself and he thought that was a good idea.

I asked if I could get a name of a regional service rep and the guy said he couldn't give me a name but he could give me a number, an 800 number.

From my reading I'm afraid that this number is only the first of a number of hurdles I have to get past until I reach someone who can actually do something about it. I'm not looking forward to this. I hate doing this kind of thing.

Reply to
Dave

I'm pretty sure it's a real engine problem. The 1st Mazda guy offered to put the car up on a lift and show me the problem but I didn't know if that would help me at all.

And now a 2nd guy at a different dealership has verified that the problem is as described in the service bulletin 014/00R, "Rattling noise from engine".

So I think I have a real problem and now it's just an issue of who pays for it.

Reply to
Dave

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