Wheels falling off RX-7 redux

Cool!

The handling seems to have been affected in a negative way, but what a fast stop that was!

Pat

Just out of curiosity, do Dixie Region's tech inspections include a check of lug nut torque?

-- Larry

I think that Leon probably had it right on his original post:

"Presumably nut lugs that seemed to screw on OK, but that I think did not quite have the right thread. I am guessing they rested on just the edges of the thread, and when torqued down, were ready to pop off at the smallest provocation."

Those lugs nuts did seem to pop off all at once, and almost immediately once stress was placed on them.

If they were loose enough to come flying off from lack of tightening alone, the driver should have noticed the extremely sloppy steering just driving up to the start.

Still, a MAJOR screw-up, anyway you look at it.

Pat

How did the guy even make it to the track (presuming the car wasn't trailered) with those lug nuts? Do people have a second set of lug nuts to go with their racing wheels?

Some of you are making large assumptions about lugnuts, when in reality we don't have any facts about why the wheels came off. If you're curious, email someone at the club and ask. Speculation, while assuredly the lifeblood of Usenet, isn't all that productive when the facts should be easy to find.

Well, I see four rather intact looking wheels, and people immediately collecting lug nuts off of the track. Looks like they popped off to me, the only question is why.

Either the lugs were faulty, the lug nuts were faulty, he started the race with them finger-tightened on the car, or they were the wrong size. The latter seems like the most likely cause to me.

You found the video, so you clearly have some interest. Why don't you ask and let us know? I am willing to bet at least 10 to 1 that it was not caused by lug nuts being placed on the car without torquing them down.

Pat

Possibly trailered, and a lot of people swap wheels/tires after they get to the autocross track.

My SSR Comps have a non-OEM set of lug nets, but I am not sure if they are interchangeable with OEM ones or not. I keep a set of open-end lug nuts with the spare when I carry it on trips, also handy for brake work.

I have seen aftermarket wheels on other cars that would not take the stock lug nuts.

Whatever the cause, this fits in with my theory that anything that can be screwed up, will be screwed up, by somebody, given time.

If it was an unlikely case of 20 defective lugs or lug nuts, then I wish the RX-7 owner the best in his upcoming lawsuit. :-)

Pat

As far as I am concerned, you are right on.

As far as I know, the driver drove in on OEM wheels with OEM lug nuts, and swapped wheels with nonOEM lug nuts. Probably what he could find at Pep Boys, from the look of them. (They look familiar).

Suggestions that the problem was that the lug nuts were not torqued down do not require any comment for any thinking person. Even if they were not even finger tight, they could not all vibrate off at the exact same time.

Dixie does not check lug nut torque. They also do not check for possible material defects, nor whether the driver is an alien. At least, I never had any problem.

The lug threads had damage, indicating to me that the lug nuts had been stripped off, but by and large not enough damage that they could not hold a full amount of torque with the OEM nuts put back on. This suggests to me that the other lug nuts did not fit that well.

After downloading 5 Mb of video over my phone line, Flash Player was not kind enough to show me the results. Probably deletes it as soon as it gets it to protect copyright.

Leon

What, and spoil your fun? Heaven forfend, Pat. I'm too nice a guy to play such a dirty trick on my Usenet buddies.

Leon, we are agreeing so much lately that it is just plain frightening. I may find myself in a white miata soon if I don't watch it.

Did you get a chance to look at the car close-up?

Agreed. I am changing my bet of 10 to 1 odds to my clear miata title against somebody's $1.00 bill if they can prove that the lug nuts all vibrated off at once because they were not tightened down. (that is roughly 6500 to 1 odds, anyone want to lose a dollar?)

Really, if it wasn't the lug nuts popping off, what was it? The wheel gremlin? Your original suggestion is the only one that makes any sense.

Definitely no alien checks, then. ;-0

Phone line? Arghhhh, it has been a long time since I have heard the 56K modem firing up.

Pat

It is kind of fun to watch a video that clearly shows all of the lug nuts popping off of the car and then to read this when it is commented on.

"Some of you are making large assumptions about lugnuts, when in reality we don't have any facts about why the wheels came off."

Let's see, 20 lug nuts pop off at once, but to think that the lug nuts might be the problem is making a large assumption? I really don't think so.

Pat

Ha! That is exactly what me and Leon "assumed".

I also tend to "make a large assumption" that a tire is flat when it doesn't have air in it. Some things really are not that complicated. :-)

Pat

They didn't have to "vibrate off at the exact same time." Only the last one or two on each wheel had to vibrate/shear/break off under maximum stress in the same turn-in.

That would be immediately obvious to anyone who hasn't been permanently blinded by ugly white paint. 8;)

-- Larry ('95 R -- black, of course...)

NOW PAT !,

Your English teacher would do a "slow roll" is her grave if she heard you say what you did !

It is "Always" .... Leon and I ......

You NEVER put yourself FIRST when you speak ! :-) ... Ain't that so, teacher ??? :-)

Bruce Bing '03 LS

No, asserting the exact sequence of events with no data was a large assumption. It was obviously something involving the lugnuts.

With more data now, it does seem likely that 1/2" nuts were used on 12mm studs, torqued to spec, but with the threads barely engaged. But this was still an educated guess, not the first-hand account of the owner.

No matter, I'm sure it'll buff right out.

That would be one hell of a "buffer" :-)

Bruce Bing '03 LS

Leon made an educated guess that I agreed with as almost certainly being the cause once I saw the video, and we were exactly right.

Barring a full set of defective lug nuts, something I have never seen before, what else could it have been besides them being the wrong size?

My bet is still open for anyone who thinks that they were not tightened down enough.

Again, no broken wheels, lug studs intact, lug nuts stripped right off almost immediately. Pretty strong evidence there.

Certainly. :-)

Pat

Hey, my last English teacher should only be about 55 to 60 by now.

Sorry, I just finished reading "Emergence" by David Palmer. Written in first person without using the words "the", "my", or "I".

Not the easiest read in the world.... :-)

Now I'm fixin' to hit the sack.

Pat