Chevy, better than MB?!?!

JD Powers does an initial quality guide every year. I don't know about Chevy, but I was surprised to see Cadillac come in second. And Mercedes was pretty far down on the list. "Better" is a bit subjective though. My 99 S 420 is far more comfortable than any other passenger vehicle I've ever driven. My C5 Vette was a lot more fun, but certainly didn't have the same "feel" of quality. But if I wanted 'bulletproof", I'd just ride my Suzuki motorcycle.

well I have a 320 CLK and a 350Z... I don't like to drive to fast in that dam 320.... but... its nice to have.

comfortable

IMHO, the W126 was the last good Mercedes. Conversely, I think 1992 was the start of BMW's march toward what Benz used to be. Richard

Insiders from Mercedes admit W 124 models were the last "good" benzes, corroborated by the decline in overall quality we, Mercedes fans, have sadly witnessed in ensuing vehicles. It's been said a thousand times, but ruining Mercedes-Benz' reputation in the name of higher profits will lead to bankruptcy in the long run. BMW and especially Audi prove things doesn't have to be this way. Have a detailed look at the new A8, and you will conclude it's the new reference, Lexus included.

John

Reed Gabler wrote: > Over in the Corvette NG they are talking about German cars and how crappy > they have become, stating chevy is now a better quality car. Is this true?

Irrelevant question.

All corporations are nothing more than an expression of their respective management's decisions and will.

This is why you should really speak of management as much as the corporation and why the salaries that many consider too high are in fact quite paltry when considered in the context of the effect on profits that their decisions can have. In other words, if Juergen Schremp can literally add or delete billions from the profits of his company he is easily worth 15 million annually - which is not that much in today's dollars anyway.

Bob Lutz, the new guy at GM, should probably be listened to. The only thing that I have noticed from GM lately is the 16, and Lutz had to make compromises to the existing designers who like that "ugly edge" design school. They should let Lutz have more power.

Personally the cars I like are Mercedes, especially AMG and the Maybach. For an insight why, Forbes just did a quick comparison of the E55 and 3 other competitive German makes. There is currently nothing from GM that competes with the E55. Lutz and his coworkers could change that and I hope they do. Competition is good.

Forbes link:

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Indeed I think this is true. Often I hear people talking about "the clever money" going on an Audi. I do think the A4 is superior to the C Class or 3 series.

MB quality started to slide when the marketing department took over (early

90s) and started telling engineering how to build the cars. Marketing wants gadgets, self-closing doors, etc and all those little toys that break and cost big bucks to fix. MB drive trains and engines still hold up well but the problems are all mostly with all the goodies that are now standard. Surverys show that a majority of MB owners sell or trade right around the time that their new car warranty is ending. They get something newer with full warranty. Anyone buying a used MB should certainly get a StarMark warranted car. If not you are probably going to be paying big bucks on many repairs that will be needed just about the time the original factory warranty expires. MB has done well with the way they are building cars today....but I for one am not interested in getting a new or newer MB. I'll stick with my classic 560 SEL. It is totally dependable, still can cruise upwards of 135mph in comfort and looks great.

All this is true. What's often forgotten, however, is that when MB was operating business as usual in the early nineties they were losing market share (and money) to their competitors. The 'old' way of building and marketing cars doesn't work today. The market has spoken.

h

It's about mere facts. What do you call terrible reputation for reliability? The unintended acceleration issue related to the 5000S like 20 years ago? The A8 is a better built car than the S-class, any impartial observer will agree on that. And on renowned european surveys, the old A8 ranks above the

7-series and the S-class in terms of reliability and agreement. No one is saying Mercedes-Benz is now making shit boxes, they just aren't the undisputable #1 as they used to be two decades ago. This is the fact I am complaining about as a lifetime MB enthusiast, there's no need to act like a rude, angry salesman.

John

Actually I only wish I were smoking pot.

I applaud their strategy as well.

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What gets me is all these self-styled experts pontificating about how astray MB has gone in recent years all the while they are setting monthly sales and profit records.

I guess these people would prefer MB to go back to 'building cars like they used to'. I suppose that means the early nineties when they were losing, not only market share, but 600 million dollars a year as well. They should do this, I suppose, just to make you happy.

h

I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm sure I see Audi, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, and all the other high-dollar cars everyday but I never really seem to notice them. But I'm almost certain that I notice every Mercedes I meet. And not just because I'm looking for them. But because they just stand out. Meanwhile, it seems the others (with the possible exception of Cadillac) all seem to be poorly executed imitations of one or another MB model. Strange. Folks can whine about MB but that three-pointed star will always stand for something a little better than average. Maybe it's just me... Dale (not Camille) '88 560SL '96 S500 Coupe '00 CL500

Harvey Louz> What gets me is all these self-styled experts pontificating about how astray

Actually I think it was starting about 1974 that the bean counters got involved at MB. Their influence has steadily increased but MB cars will command a modest premium based on past reputation. Eventually (quickly if M and C series quality prevails) buyers will wise up and Mercedes will become just another car.

Howard

1972 280SEL 4.5 - pristine OEM

It would be totally unfair to define Audi cars as MB wannabees. Furthermore, we are now seeing some of their peculiarities in the luxury segment, such as permanent all wheel drive transmission or full aluminium frame, being adopted by the competition (4Matic S-class and Jag XJ series respectively). I guess your comment just reflects Audi's lack of past reputation in the US market.

John

Furthermore,

respectively).

The A8 which has an all aluminum body weighs more than the S500 4 Matic. So much for weight savings.

h

huh? According to their respective official websites, the A8 4.2 Quattro SWB weighs 1780kg; S500 4Matic SWB: 1980kg. These values may differ in normal driving conditions, but the Audi should be some 400lbs lighter.

Uh... Pot... Kettle... You pick a color.

You are talking about two different people here. To the short term investor, the "new" MB is great. To the long term consumer, they are worse. I have owned many MBs over the years, and I would much rather have a new BMW that a new MB. And I would rather have an older MB than either....

I used to travel for work, and I had a 2001 BMW 3 series for 4 months. Compared to the new MB, they are a much better car. Compared to a 126 in good shape, they are still quite nice. Compare a new MB to a 126, and you get a small cabin space, a lot a plastic, and many gadgets to break... Just my opinion, but it at least as valid as yours...

Lee

How did you know they were balding (they are)....one weekend all I saw was 50 something bald guys driving corvette convertibles. Talk about "mid-life crisis". I thought it was a young man's car being that it doesn't cost that much.

Nope. I find different numbers on their websites: S 500 4 Matic 1925 kg =

4235 lbs and the Audi A8 (2004) 4399 lbs. h