Chevy, better than MB?!?!

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Over in the Corvette NG they are talking about German cars and how crappy they have become, stating chevy is now a better quality car. Is this true or
they just a bunch of bias balding old men?
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JD Powers does an initial quality guide every year. I don't know about Chevy, but I was surprised to see Cadillac come in second. And Mercedes was pretty far down on the list. "Better" is a bit subjective though. My 99 S 420 is far more comfortable than any other passenger vehicle I've ever driven. My C5 Vette was a lot more fun, but certainly didn't have the same "feel" of quality. But if I wanted 'bulletproof", I'd just ride my Suzuki motorcycle.

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well I have a 320 CLK and a 350Z... I don't like to drive to fast in that dam 320.... but... its nice to have.
I think Benz messed up with the new designs... look too much like Camry's.

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IMHO, the W126 was the last good Mercedes. Conversely, I think 1992 was the start of BMW's march toward what Benz used to be. Richard

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Insiders from Mercedes admit W 124 models were the last "good" benzes, corroborated by the decline in overall quality we, Mercedes fans, have sadly witnessed in ensuing vehicles. It's been said a thousand times, but ruining Mercedes-Benz' reputation in the name of higher profits will lead to bankruptcy in the long run. BMW and especially Audi prove things doesn't have to be this way. Have a detailed look at the new A8, and you will conclude it's the new reference, Lexus included.
John

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It's about mere facts. What do you call terrible reputation for reliability? The unintended acceleration issue related to the 5000S like 20 years ago? The A8 is a better built car than the S-class, any impartial observer will agree on that. And on renowned european surveys, the old A8 ranks above the 7-series and the S-class in terms of reliability and agreement. No one is saying Mercedes-Benz is now making shit boxes, they just aren't the undisputable #1 as they used to be two decades ago. This is the fact I am complaining about as a lifetime MB enthusiast, there's no need to act like a rude, angry salesman.
John

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What gets me is all these self-styled experts pontificating about how astray MB has gone in recent years all the while they are setting monthly sales and profit records.
I guess these people would prefer MB to go back to 'building cars like they used to'. I suppose that means the early nineties when they were losing, not only market share, but 600 million dollars a year as well. They should do this, I suppose, just to make you happy.
h
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I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm sure I see Audi, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, and all the other high-dollar cars everyday but I never really seem to notice them. But I'm almost certain that I notice every Mercedes I meet. And not just because I'm looking for them. But because they just stand out. Meanwhile, it seems the others (with the possible exception of Cadillac) all seem to be poorly executed imitations of one or another MB model. Strange. Folks can whine about MB but that three-pointed star will always stand for something a little better than average. Maybe it's just me... Dale (not Camille) '88 560SL '96 S500 Coupe '00 CL500
Harvey Louzon wrote:

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It would be totally unfair to define Audi cars as MB wannabees. Furthermore, we are now seeing some of their peculiarities in the luxury segment, such as permanent all wheel drive transmission or full aluminium frame, being adopted by the competition (4Matic S-class and Jag XJ series respectively). I guess your comment just reflects Audi's lack of past reputation in the US market.
John

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The A8 which has an all aluminum body weighs more than the S500 4 Matic. So much for weight savings.
h
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huh? According to their respective official websites, the A8 4.2 Quattro SWB weighs 1780kg; S500 4Matic SWB: 1980kg. These values may differ in normal driving conditions, but the Audi should be some 400lbs lighter.

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Nope. I find different numbers on their websites: S 500 4 Matic 1925 kg 4235 lbs and the Audi A8 (2004) 4399 lbs.
h
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Ok, this is odd. Possibly related to different homologation processes, or just a typo? Since we're talking long wheel version, on european sites we find the following: Benz 2 tons vs Audi 1,830kg. IOW a 170 kg (377lbs) difference.
<http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/specs.jsp?section=/models/a8/a8&modcodeN801 L++00> <http://www.mercedes-benz.de/mbd/tg03/0,3408,C28_17_2NDD,00.html?
John

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I don't understand the discrepancy either. MBUSA web site does not list theweight of the S500 4 Matic (it does for the RWD but the former is a couple of hyndred pounds heavier. Here's the S-class 4 matic weight from MBs 'international' site:
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/s-class/s5004matic.htm
The long wheelbase version of the Audi A8 (the MB is only available as a long wheelbase version in the USA so that's the appropriate comparison) weighs in at 4399 lbs:
http://www.audiusa.com/features_specifications/0,,contentType-26_modelId-200 413_status-P_countrycode-1_,00.html

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By the way look at car and drivers write up on the A8:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_idh53&page_nu mber=1
In short it is slow, has a poor ride for a luxury car and is heavier than the S500 4 Matic. It's styling is uninspiring (granted that's subjective but IMO even Lexus would be radial by comparison).
What's to like about it?
h
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Doesn't take a genius to notice the general hostility against the car in that article. I have read a half dozen tests on european renowned magazines, and I haven't come across anything similar to that pile of biased crap. The fact that all cars tested were short wheel drive versions doesn't justify such a disparity of judgement. In short, it might not be the faster in its class, but it isn't the slowest either; it's got the best cornering abilities with the optional Sport suspension, and with standard air suspension it rides beatifully; according to their respective manufacturer's data, the Benz is considerably heavier (EU specs); looks might be subjective, but to me it's the sexiest luxury sedan at this present moment. At least in SWB with optional lowered suspension (availability in the US?) and 19" wheels. You can't judge this car's styling by just looking at some pics. I know a few people who were like "blah, it looks like a Buick" or "man, that's just a big A4" before seeing the actual car. A visit to the Audi dealer sufficed to change their minds.
Here's a more constructive and impartial driving impression from MT: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0301_a8 /
John
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it, and I know it! There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print." -- John Swinton, former Chief of Staff for the New York Times

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oops Short wheel base, even. Sucks to be typing in three different languages simultaneously, I guess :P Anyway, getting back to this post's main subject, I am glad that GM-USA vehicles are starting to catch up with the competition. A couple of days ago I saw a black Chevy Avalanche Z71 in this parking lot, and it's the perfect vehicle for carrying the bikes, bicycles, dogs, and friends. And for some off road madness as well, despite its bulkiness...
John

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Only the long wheelbase version of the big Audi is for sale in the US. Ditto for the S class.
h
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Actually I think it was starting about 1974 that the bean counters got involved at MB. Their influence has steadily increased but MB cars will command a modest premium based on past reputation. Eventually (quickly if M and C series quality prevails) buyers will wise up and Mercedes will become just another car.
Howard 1972 280SEL 4.5 - pristine OEM
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