Mercedes?

I don't know if there is majority of Americans here, but anyhow I wanted to ask a group something. What's your opinion of new Mercedes'? I'm asking this 'coz as I see it, "real Mercedes" died with presentation of
middle middle class (W201).
Matt
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The new MBs look great but because of so many "goodies" now being added to the new models, reliability has suffered. The engines and drive trains are still pretty much bullet-proof but the problems are in the electronics and accessories. Many MB fans would like to be able to order the new cars withouth all the built-in toys, (automatic door closers, fans to cool the seats, traction devices, tv screens, etc). The rule of thumb today is if you buy a new MB you better trade it at the end of the warranty period. If you buy a used model the StarMark warranty is a must. Sad, but true.

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Real Mercedes' stop being made in 1992 (at least for the US, in South Africa, real Mercedes' were made until 1994). Richard

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Are you claiming that the W124 E320 was not a "real mercedes"? I hear mostly that the 124 was the last "real merc" but never heard the 300E/E320 one before...
And are you going to say that the 1994 E300D 24v 3.0L Inline 6 diesel was not a "real merc"? I have yet to hear a major complaint about that engine, and the W124 chassis was regarded as one of the best chassis merc ever made.
Curious.. Mike -Happy with my '87, only new merc I'd buy is a 03 E55 AMG.

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Mike \"Rotor\" Nowak wrote:

Well, not exactly, as I know of some which above 600.000 km developed cracks in the rear.
W124 was good - but not in the beginning years, not all engines and not all technical solutions like the single-arm wiper mechanism.
Juergen
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What they seem to have lost in reliability, they gained it in styling department.
I think that overall, they are generally better than old ones. However E and C classes are on Consumer Report worst reliable cars in their own category. Unacceptable.

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Did they? Those "everyone can do it" japanese-like design is something special? Please, never compare those with w116.

Why C class? Why A class?
Matt
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dies gedichtet:

It is a well known phenomenon that with the presentaton of every new E- class or S-class generation, there are some people claiming that Mercedes has stopped to make "real mercedes". IIRC this happened first in 1968, when they presented the W110.
Frank
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Frank Kemper wrote:

In 1968 production of W110 (aka fintail, Heckflosse) ended and the successor W115/115 was presented - that is why those also are known as /8 resp. Strichacht.
Besides that yopu are right - one can see the phenomena with every new Porsche 911.
BTW: Are you the Frank Kemper who once worked at Ringier Verlag in Munich and was editor for technical stuff at Foto Magazin?
Juergen
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And of course every new Jaguar is "just a ford"

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Re: Mercedes? Group: alt.auto.mercedes Date: Mon, Nov 17, 2003, 1:21am (EST+5) From: snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk (OliverKeating)
Frank Kemper wrote: IIRC this happened first in 1968, when they presented the W110. In 1968 production of W110 (aka fintail, Heckflosse) ended and the successor W115/115 was presented - that is why those also are known as /8 resp. Strichacht. Besides that yopu are right - one can see the phenomena with every new Porsche 911. And of course every new Jaguar is "just a ford" BTW: Are you the Frank Kemper who once worked at Ringier Verlag in Munich and was editor for technical stuff at Foto Magazin? Juergen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx FORD use Lucas lighting the Prince of darkness?
case
the case, minus a few cans!
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IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN wrote:

I really do not know where you have the line

from - it is neither from Frank nor from me.
Did you add it?
Juergen
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Oliver Keating added the line, date & time-stamped on my computer 17 Nov 01:21, i.e. 02:21 your time.
Don't you guys sleep at night?
DAS --
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Dori Schmetterling wrote:

Sleeping at night when there are such important things to discuss? ;-)
Juergen (having had to stand up very early this night)
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Dori Schmetterling wrote:

Sleeping at night when there are such important things to discuss? ;-)
Juergen (having had to get up very early this night)
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Soory, messed up the W-Code, You are right.

Yes. Now I work for an internet magazine.
Frank
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dies gedichtet:

when
You didn't get it, right? There was never smaller Merc. Until w201 there was upper middle class - E, and high class - S. Right? With w201 they made fiat for the first time.
Matt
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Yes, the 190 was the first "Baby Benz", and it didn't seem like a 'real' Merc. I finally acquired 2-litre version in 1993 (last production year) and still have it. Nice car, and a 'real' Mercedes. If it weren't, would my W123 200D (1980 - 1982 in my possession) have been my last 'real' one (as only diesels were 'real')? Or the W123 200E (1983 - 86)? Or the W124 230E (1986 - 1993)?
Frank Kemper's point is that with EVERY new model or style somebody will complain about the demise of the marque.
I think the real demise of the marque will be/is being caused by quality issues. There was a time when Daimler-Benz was slow to introduce technical innovation, especially when not invented in-house, waiting for it to be proved bomb-proof. Now they have to be at the forefront, with all the attendant issues.
Toshiba notebook computers are similar. They weren't first out with the fastest processor and so were very reliable. This is what matters in the real world. This policy seems to have changed and we'll see what that does for reliablity.
DAS --
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I certainly agree that "real" Mercedes are all but entombed. However, I disagree with the portrayal of the W201 as death the knell, particularly because my 2.3 16v is pure joy and the 16vs have to be the best handling real production mercs ever.
The 1st true mass (American) market Merc (i.e. designed to American Market tastes) was the W210. That model for me was the harbinger of Mercedes decline, as it was the follow on to what I consider the finest utilitairan Merc (and still unsurpassed in value for $) the W124.
Wheras the W210 heralded the death of M.B. excellence. When the Grim Reaper actually showed up, he was driving an ML.
Matej Pivac wrote:

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