New Problem Tires

During a brake job, a year ago a technician broke the top off the r/f "rotor hold down allen screw," " Don't worry the wheel bolts will hold
it flat and in line, "Fix it later, make appointment" Since then a new set of tires, are "cupped" uneven wear patterns are visible when up on a lift, truck tire road noise, and a distinct wobble rubbing sound,...That took me to dealer service for a four wheel balance, and alignment. "No point in balancing these tires, bring it back Monday for complete suspension check. Tires are Dunlop SP A2 that I bought in 205/60/15 instead of 185/65/15. Is this possible? tires were balanced and alignment checked when installed. Or is there something else going on here. My options are, rotten tires, in the wrong size, suspension damage, or a missing rotor screw that is allowing movement and throwing alignment off. Thanks for any input..........Rick
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The wheel bolts do hold everything together, certainly the wheel to the axle's hub. I believe the rotor hold down screw ensures that the rotor doesn't fall off when the lug bolts and wheel are removed. In other words, the hold down screw has nothing to do with the tire wear problem. But the tech should have replaced it and not blown you off.
The question to ask with respect to the tires is how are the rear tires wearing? If normally then your tire selection is OK and the problem is in their balance and front alignment.
In my experience tires get cupped from lifting from and bouncing onto the pavement; the points of impact appear to be scooped out of the tread so that one could lay a 50 cent coin into the depression(s). That happens when a tire is not correctly balanced. I recently bought new tires, balanced, and the car shook. I returned and the shop found a 1.25 oz error had been made. Sloppy.
You don't state the model or its mileage so that leaves other possibilities. Judging by the tire size the car is probably a C or E class, neither known for vibration or tire wear issues.
Was it ever wrecked?
Does its mileage exceed 100K miles?
If "yes" to either I'd have the suspension checked, otherwise the dealer is on a "fishing expedition" IMHO, so ask for an estimate before agreeing to have anything fixed. They'll at least say the alignment and wheel balance is needed and find the steering damper (if it has one) "ought to be done too". That's $300 please. For that you can buy an alignment and two new tires, balanced.
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The road noise you cite may be from a worn out wheel bearing or terribly toed-in or toed-out front wheels that are plowing down the road because they're not parallel to each other. That wears out tires pretty fast.
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Cupping usually means bad shocks... so my question is when is the last time you changed yours?
As TG said, it is possible you also got a wheel bearing problem... jack it up and give it a wobble to see if the bearings are bad.
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On 2005-05-07 08:59:47 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (r parris) said:

Usually either improper inflation or poor shocks would cause cupping...
Marty
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Car is 1992 190E 2.6. 4- Tires were purchased at mileage 112,902 on 2-9-03 at Sears Auto Center, performance balanced, and road hazard insurance Three months later tires were rotated, and over torqued wheel locks replaced. Mileage is now 135,240, take off tires were 185/65/15 Michelin mxv. Struts and shocks were replaced at 60,000 miles with Bilstein comfort (did'nt know any better) at purchase 1996 Last know alignment at 122,805 on 3-3-04, after right tie rod assy replaced, rubbing, wobbling noise had begun. Last work done was right front wheel bearing, replaced....4-9-04 .....and yes, all four tires are damaged, one rear down to the wear bar.!
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After two years and 22K miles all four tires are worn. That speaks to either aggressive driving or "performance" (soft) tread rubber with a correspondingly low wear rating. Or both.
It appears that replacing the right tie rod and a subsequent alignment didn't cure the rubbing and wobbling, nor replacing the right front wheel bearing.
You never mentioned any pulling or drift to the left or right side. Is there any?
The old Michelin 185 MXVs were worn but how was the car then?
It could be that these 205 (vs 185) oversize tires are too wide for this car, 195 might be better.
IMHO the tires put on "sport sedans" have too low aspect ratios that somewhat adversely affect their low speed handling by "kicking back" road irregularities to the driver through the steering wheel. My E320 has 215/55 tires I'd prefer 205/70 for smoother steering and a softer ride.
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Car steering left recently, on some occasions "hands off" hard braking, pulled left, but not always. In fact on one occasion car went left then corrected to the right, on dry pavement. I see by my "log book" I had the car inspected by dealer service 9-04 needed steering damper, and front tire balance at 258.oo and under diagnosis: lower control arm bushings and coil springs at 6.5 hours labor and 326.oo in parts. No mention of cupped tires, or any damage! Due to record snow falls, car was rarely driven until April. I feel a clunky movement under the floorboard pedals area, even at slow speeds, that wasn't there before
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I feel a clunky movement under the floorboard pedals area, even at slow speeds, that wasn't there before.
That may be due to a too loose idler arm or looseness in the tie rod linkage or control arm bushings. If any of these areas (excluding idler arm or steering damper) is repaired the front wheels will need to be aligned.
Worn tires want to follow roadway irregularities and so want to steer the car whereas new tires don't kick back. The greater the wear the more the kick back effect the driver feels.
An inspection may find something that probably ought to be repaired but IMHO the replacement tires that you'll soon need to buy should be more appropriately sized for this car - one size over the spec, not two and I'd just proceed with new tires rather than messing about with this worn set.
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Mmm... definitely not the shocks then... has to be something in steering system...
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What ever the problem is, it got pass dealer service twice ....so its not obvious, they called it excessive road noise. Maybe its just "old" tires badly balanced, Alignment is definitely off now! I never had springs, or lower control arm bushings replaced until I know for sure I will be at Dealer Service, monday morning, and ask for Four Wheel Alignment and front and rear suspension inspection and a list of any faulty parts preventing alignment. I'll keep you posted,.......
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Regarding the noise problem my wife's car had the same problem you had. She brought it from place to place and they were telling her different things. I brought it in and was told it was caused by a wheel bearing that was on its last legs. They fixed it and car ran smoothly after that.
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Well, the problem is a broken left coil spring,.... and seized alignment parts. Lower six inches of coil is indeed broken, Left tie rod assy (could not be moved) Rear toe adjusting links on both sides (could not be moved) And left rear shock is leaking! I guess a winter pothole nailed me. Rear wheels were not tracking,... and front wheels were guiding left. Dealer repair price $1,400.oo I'm on it,.. rear shocks and steering damper all ready done! Lower control arm bushings rear are cracked but o.k., but while springs are out ? Maybe toe links, and tie rod can be freed up? ....If not. Thanks alot for your help.............Rick
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Wow... look like you need a part car... If you are in NJ, you can swap the parts off my part car...
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pot hole sounds more like a mine shaft
the case, minus a few cans!
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Wow! A broken spring, that's unusual!
Clearly that must be fixed. Didn't the left front sag?
Frozen parts can be freed up; they're rusted together by the road salt. Repeated applications of penetrating oil some heat and some hammering will eventually free the clamps and threads.
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Never seen a broken coil spring on a190E Thats why I didn't believe it, but there it was, the lower part is still in the recess. The coil spring is the only real damage other than the tires. Front struts have to be damaged also. No sag, less than half a coil is broken The car HAD to be aligned after the right tie rod assy was replaced in 04? It just occured to me coil is not secured in control arm recess, I think pressure will hold it in place on slow drive to spring shop in the morning
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On 2005-05-09 19:22:48 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (r parris) said:

I Think someone here has mentioned broken spring in a 190 before (tiger?)
Don't know, but that sounds like a serious blow.
Should be fine for a slow drive, if you got the rear end back together ok.
Marty
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Not broken spring... broken spring compressor which resulted in injury on my wrist... good thing that my wrist didn't break...
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Broken springs are a common problem in the UK. W201 and W124 had recalls in the early 90's to have Sacrificial Anodes fitted to the front springs. This helped to stop them corroding and snapping. I've also seen springs break on W123, W140, W210, W202, W203 and W211. We just have alot of bad roads.

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